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Outside group protests gay marriage

| Sunday, April 27, 2014

A group from the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP)  gathered outside DeBartolo Hall dressed formally in red and black Friday to hand out flyers titled “10 Reasons why Homosexual ‘Marriage’ is Harmful and Must be Opposed” and talked to students about opposition to gay marriage.

A counter-demonstration of students gathered next to the TFP group with a sign taped on a recycle bin reading “ND students support equal rights for all people.”

Around 12:30 p.m., Notre Dame Security Police officers asked the TFP group to leave because their assembly violated Notre Dame policy on outside groups distributing information, as well as its video and photography policy, University spokesperson Dennis Brown said.

Members of the Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property hand out flyers outside DeBartolo Hall on Friday, as freshman Nick Lindstrom takes part in a counter-demonstration nearby. Lesley Stevenson | The Observer

Members of the Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property hand out flyers outside DeBartolo Hall on Friday, as freshman Nick Lindstrom takes part in a counter-demonstration nearby.

“The Orestes Brownson Council student group received permission to distribute information on campus this week. Our policies explicitly state that only members of the University community may organize or lead such events on campus,” Brown said. “When University officials learned that, contrary to our policies, the student group made this request on behalf of an outside organization, we asked that they leave.”

Brown said the group also failed to get permission to shoot video footage on campus and recorded videos and took photos of people without their permission.

TFP, based in Pennsylvania, has more than 120,000 members nationwide, according to the group’s website. John Ritchie, TFP’s student action director, said their visit to Notre Dame fit within a larger tour.

“We fight for moral values in society, and our student outreach decided to visit Notre Dame because we’re doing a tour through the whole state of Indiana defending the traditional marriage definition, which is the union of one man and one woman,” Ritchie said. 

He said he had no comment on the student counter-protest. 

Freshman Nick Lindstrom said he brought out a trash can with the sign on it because he wanted to show the protestors that not all students at a Catholic university “conform to that traditional stereotype.” 

“I’m not affiliated with any group, I just saw [the TFP protestors], and I figured something needed to be done,” Lindstrom said. “I brought a couple friends with me, and a bunch of people just joined in. … It was just so great to see that other Notre Dame students are willing to hold this position with me.” 

Sophomore Caroline Clark said she spoke to the TFP group on campus Thursday, but returned Friday to learn more about what they were doing.

“I initially came out because I saw their signs [Thursday], and I was personally offended,” she said. “I came back here today just to chat with them a bit, learn more about their message.

“I was just very curious about their message and wanted to learn more about their goals and objectives and why Notre Dame was a place that needed to hear what they are teaching [and] spreading. So we were both very calm, collected.” 

Sophomore Chris Rhyne said he talked to the group to question their stance and then posted on Facebook inviting other students to join him in the counter-protest. Sophomores Nora Williamson and Emer Middleton arrived as the TFP group was leaving, with a handmade sign reading “equality” in capital letters.

Lindstrom said he was concerned about the prospective student groups in the area who witnessed “this unfortunate protest” while passing on a tour and wanted to demonstrate to them and to the TFP group that not all students on campus oppose gay marriage. 

News Editor Lesley Stevenson contributed to this report.

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About Ann Marie Jakubowski

Senior News Writer, formerly Editor-in-Chief. English and Spanish double major, minor in journalism, ethics and democracy. Grand Rapids, Mich., native. Notre Dame Class of 2015.

Contact Ann Marie
  • Helio

    It seems that these students of Notre Dame need to learn more about democracy, since instead of replying TFP volunteers with valid arguments, they just found a way to get rid of them, avoiding those students who agree with TFP to have their own ideas defended by them in a peaceful way.

    • guest

      Your comment is inaccurate. The protesters were trespassing on private property and removed in accordance with University guidelines. Their message did not factor into the police’s decision.

      • Maggie Sullivan

        Nice try at a lie, a few years ago the ND police let anti-war and anti-Bush protesters run wild on campus……..but of course the message had nothing to do with it!

      • scragsma

        They weren’t trespassing. They were invited by a student group, who got permission from the school. Apparently neither TFP nor the sponsoring group was properly informed by the school, who dropped the ball.

        • ReadingComprehension

          TFP violated visitor and recording policies. They were forced to leave due to their own negligence, not because of the school.

        • Parque_Hundido

          You have no proof of this. You people always make up things when you’re cornered.

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          I think you are inventing a defense for their bad behavior.

          • Craig Smith

            Jeffy, What exactly was their bad behavior. Free speech. This is not Cuba, Russia or “pick one” a Muslim country

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            Their bad behavior is they did not follow campus rules. They needed a proper permit and they are not allowed to film students on campus. The rules are there for a purpose. Just because your wrap yourself in a bible does not mean you are exempt from rules.

    • Roy

      There’s nothing anti-democratic going on here at all. Notre Dame is not a democracy, and as a private institution, Notre Dame is not required to uphold the Free Speech requirements of the Constitution. Moreover, these creationists violated Univeristy policy. They were rightly removed.

      • Craig Smith

        It is a private Catholic University. The Catholic Church does not recognize marriage between two people of the same gender. Fr. Jenkins is again showing his disdain for Catholic teaching. What else is new.

  • John Ritchie

    I wish the campus were more open to the promotion of the sanctity of marriage. Pray for Notre Dame.

    • olive oyl

      I wish the so-called Catholic campus were more open to Catholic teaching ……

      • therobe

        I wish these so=called Catholic institutions would stop pretending to be Catholic!!!

        • Chris

          I wish these comment boards required an @nd.edu email address.

    • Parque_Hundido

      I think they’re open to that idea, I don’t think the students are open to protofascist groups that advocate legally impairing minorities. Also, your poster suggests that the Christian god was married to a woman. There is absolutely no reason to believe this is true and saying so in public just makes you seem unglued.

      • Ponyrunner

        Gosh, for starters it is a CATHOLIC teaching the homosexuality is a SIN just like adultery and sex outside of a marriage is. You would think that a so called Catholic university would be more in line with Church teaching and some of its students need a refresher course in Catholic doctrine.

        • Parque_Hundido

          You seem out of touch. Catholics are more likely than others to support LGBT equality. Sorry.

          • Ponyrunner

            I had been out of touch with my faith for many years but came back to it several years ago. Your blanket statement on Catholic support of LGBT is ludicrous. You can’t be a cafeteria Catholic and pick and choose which doctrine you support – especially on your feelings.

          • Parque_Hundido

            You continue to be out of touch. In the US, Catholic support for LGBT equality in employment, marriage and housing is from 15 to 30 percentage points higher than that of the general population. Polling data are consistent on this point. Sorry you’re still so out of touch.

          • Ponyrunner

            For faithful Catholics not so much on the out of touch. What you still don’t understand is that homosexuality is contrary to Church DOCTRINE no matter what you or any other “polled Catholics” feel about it. So who is really out of touch with their faith ? When Pope Francis endorses homosexuality (which he won’t) it will be a different discussion.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Please feel free to reach out to Catholics and explain to them why they’re wrong. Until you’re successful at convincing them to take your perspective, you’re just plain wrong. Catholics have been great allies to those seeking equality for LGBT Americans. Not the clergy, but the faithful. Sorry you’re still so out of touch.

          • Ponyrunner

            I don’t have to reach out. People simply need to educate themselves about what Catholicism teaches. Even IF a majority disagrees that still doesn’t make them right. Simplistically saying I am out of touch is baseless. I am in touch with Church teaching and that is all that matters.

          • Parque_Hundido

            If your goal is to scream into an echo chamber, then sure, you’re right. The rest of us live in the real world. You’re way out of touch with reality. I don’t really care about your church or your god, that’s your private business.

          • therobe

            All you seem to care about is validation for your perverted advocacy of a perverted lifestyle. I will pray for you that you get “in touch” with GOD’S
            teachings.

          • Parque_Hundido

            I will say a prayer to Our Lady of Perpetual Indulgence that you learn to say something slightly less homophobic and more interesting. Godbless.

          • GO’MH

            That is inaccurate, “PRACTICING homosexuality is contrary to Church doctrine.”

          • Ponyrunner

            Good point. You are correct.

          • NatanElias

            God’s laws are not a popularity contest nor up for debate. Even if 100% of humans believe sin is fine, God will not adjust his standard. It will be enforced.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Do you mean Vishnu, Buddha or Zeus? It’s hard for us to hear the voices in your head.

          • MillerJM

            Your responding to Catholics – what do you think clue meister. Talk about out of touch – not a lot of logic upstairs .

          • Parque_Hundido

            Uh oh, you’ve mistaken a university’s student newspaper for a church bulletin. I hope this gentle reminder of the difference is helpful to you.

          • MillerJM

            Ah, so truth is decided on votes. Guess Hitler was a straight up guy then. Thanks for the lesson.

          • Bobbaay

            Read it and weep: Even your own people don’t agree with you
            http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-31-catholics-liberal_N.htm

          • PatAl

            However, on terms of this subject, that is the way most RCs do feel. As a matter of fact, a while back (~ 10 yrs ago), during a discussion on the topic, my 7th grade nun, of 40 yrs ago, stated a positive view on the issue. Needless to say, it surprised me, but she clearly said, “Love is love and people who love each other should be left alone.” Certainly turned me around, on the issue, and has made me realize she was/is/will be correct on the topic.

          • MillerJM

            You seem out of touch with Jesus. Good luck with that – let me know how it works out for you

          • Parque_Hundido

            I was being kind by not pointing out that China appoints it’s own Catholic Pope. Also, the numbers of “Catholics” outside of Macau and Goa are trivial. Maybe they don’t teach geography where you live, which is sad.

            Are you the spokesperson for Jesus? If so, you have what we call a ” delusion of grandeur” and probably need Thorazine. If not, I’ll point out that you are not in a position to say who is or is not in touch with him. Just saying.

          • MillerJM

            You seem lost braniac. The overwhelming number of Catholics live in Africa, India, China, and Latin America. Those regions of the world have overwhelmingly rejected gay marriage. Talk about lack of touch with reality – you don’t know basic demographics. Given your terrible lack of knowledge in this area, you have no credibility.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Uh oh. Someone seems to have forgotten that marriage equality has already come to Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Costa Rica and Uruguay. Bills are pending in Chile and Colombia. Looks like your ill’ theory doesn’t even pass the rational basis test. I know that must seem familiar since you people get that a lot.

            I’m aware that Hitler was Catholic although I don’t see your point. Not all Catholics are psychopathic dictators so I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. It doesn’t seem fair to paint everyone with the same brush.

            I hope you see my point about Catholics being such great allies of LGBT equality. The “kill the gays” laws in many African countries are indeed troubling but I certainly hope there’s no Catholic connection or support. It would be terrible for you to go back to your old ways.

          • disqus_JMJ

            I will try and spell this out in very simple terms.
            Just becuase someone calls themselves a catholic, does not mean they are a catholic. Crazy I know. The problem here is that to be a real catholic, one would have to submit to the doctrine of the church and follow the precepts of the church. It’s a pretty clear cut thing, either you are in the boat or you are not in the boat.
            So for example, lets say someone calls themself a catholic, but they believe the Eucharist never really becomes the flesh of Jesus. Pretty big issue and point of dissent I would think. It would be hard to convince anyone that this person was a catholic if they do not believe in the Eucharistic miracle. Most would call them a Protestant.
            But wait, wiat, wait, you say. Just becuase they don’t believe one thing about being catholic does not mean they are not catholic!
            Ok, maybe thats the case, so they are now catholics. Does that mean however that what the catholic church teaches, believes, and practices has changed?
            And more importantly; Does this mean that the dissenters are the true voice of the Church?
            Hardly. A chicken might like water and want to be a duck, but no matter how it behaves or no matter what it says, its still a chicken.
            You may be correct in that some poll shows those who call themselves catholic to be supportive of a homosexual lifestyle, but the fact is these people are not truly faithful and practicing Catholics. Its just a sad fact. Deal with it.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Are you in charge of determining who is and who is not “Catholic”? If so, you have delusions of grandeur and probably need Thorazine. If not, I fail to understand your comment.

            There is a simple anthropological definition for determining membership in a community (even a community of “faith”): does the person label him or herself as a member? Is that person recognized by others who so-label themselves? I realize that you probably have all kinds of grandiose ideas about who is or is not in your “True Catholic®” club, but none of them matter. You belong to such a tiny and uninteresting minority that your little thoughts on this just don’t matter. Sorry. Try to take a broader view. That’s what they’ll teach you in a good university.

            As far as the true voice of your “church” goes, who cares? There have been gay popes, women popes, popes who paid for abortions, alcoholic popes, drug addict popes and popes who started wars. And no “Catholic” is obliged to believe stuff that the popes say anyway. You’d be a fool if you did. They just beatified that nut job from Poland. Just saying. This is probably a lot for you to take in, I know.

          • disqus_JMJ

            Good point, If the person(s) is not recognized by us that label ourselves as such, well I guess they just don’t fit in the definition of what we consider to be Catholic.
            I think at this point, I being of a minority, am supposed to just clean the dirt from my shoes and move on. Great to have chatted with someone who is so broadminded and enlightened.
            Good Luck to you.

          • Parque_Hundido

            No. You’re what we call an outlier. You’re part of some fringe faction. Most catholics go to church a couple of times each decade, have the same reverence for the pope that they have for Santa and are supportive of contraception, limited access to abortion and full equality for LGBT people. Sorry.

          • Ponyrunner

            News Flash 4/25 – Although Pope Francis was named Person of the Year by the homosexual magazine The Advocate, which supports same-sex marriage, he repeated the Church’s teaching on marriage on Friday, stating that it is a “lifelong covenant between one man and one woman.”

            The Pope also said that real marriage fosters an environment that helps people steer away “from illusory notions of sexual freedom,” and noted that “abortion compunds the grief of many women” who have succumbed to the “pressures of a secular culture which devalues God’s gift of sexuality.”
            There’s more but you get the point. The Pope is still Catholic

          • Parque_Hundido

            I’m glad you read homosexual magazines. I personally do not, but take your word for it.

            Who cares what the popes say? No one but you, apparently. Not “Catholics”, that’s for sure. They treat the popes like you ought to: with a giant grain of salt.

            There were gay popes, lady popes and all other kind of popes. Which one do you believe?

            Also, there are many popes. For someone who seems so sure of himself, you don’t know much about the “Catholic” “Church”. Sorry.

          • P2daawg

            That is 100% not true. Catholics, more than any other Christian faith, are against the act of homosexuality. This is why I stopped giving to the university.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Sorry, Catholics are between 15 and 30 percentage points more likely than other Americans to support full equality for LGBT people. Marriage equality and other protections are already in place in Catholic countries such as Argentina, Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Uruguay, Spain, Portugal and Costa Rica. Sorry, but you’re in error on this one. Why you stopped giving to the university is another story. Are you mad about something?

          • therobe

            I assure you that while Catholics certainly support equality for all, if they adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church they do not support the sin of engaging in LGBT perversions.. Perhaps you are deluded by those who claim to be Catholics even as they choose to ignore the teachings of the Church whenever they unhappy with them.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Sorry, no. I don’t much care about the teachings of your church as they don’t concern me. But catholics support full equality for LGBT people at a rate of 15 to 30% higher than the population at large. Perhaps you should try enforcing your definition of true catholic® on those who disagree with you. We’ll see how long it takes you to get thrown out, just like the TFP did.

        • origen

          Marriage is 1 man+ 1 Woman and any children that come from it. Always has been, always will be, regardless if its in season or out of season.

          • MillerJM

            .

          • Parque_Hundido

            If by”season” you mean”rule of law”, then maybe you have a point. But marriage is a civil institution and is blind to any particular religion. Sorry.

          • PatAl

            BINGO!!! Even The Pope, if he wanted to officiate a ceremony anywhere from Maine to Hawaii, would be required to state, “By the powers invested to me by the State of X. I now pronounce you . . .” Then, and only then, upon signing a legal document from the government, would the marriage be legal.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Yep. I don’t know why these folks get so worked up over a change to civil law. Civil law and canon law are, as they should be, totally separate matters. They don’t want the state meddling in their religion and I don’t want their religion meddling in our state. End of story.

    • WhatAboutTheBigPicture

      Around the world people are suffering from poverty, disease, hunger, war, etc. No one is suffering just because homosexual couples exist. Recognizing homosexual unions under U.S. law won’t affect Catholic teaching on homosexuality and won’t affect marriages in the Catholic Church. I wish the campus were more open to the promotion of human rights and dignity than the promotion of legal discrimination.

      • Catholic

        You are clearly very unaware of what is happening in the world around you. Private businesses, and even catholic organizations themselves, are suffering under homosexual tyranny by being forced to participate in what they know to be morally wrong or face fines, persecution and the loss of their business. More importantly, if you are Christian, you should know that God suffered and died on the cross for our sins, not the least of which is the sin of homosexuality. Like it or not, there is only one God, and our sins cause him great pain. If you love God you cannot stand by and do nothing while others cause your God pain. The Catholic Church teaches us to love our neighbors, and love God. These TFP members were doing both by educating people about, and promoting, real marriage as defined by God. You must understand, Catholic teaching is to love homosexuals as God instructed us to love our neighbors, but we hate the sin which is the homosexual act. If Catholics hated homosexual people for thier sins we would not try to help them by teaching them about God and God’s design for marriage. Those Catholics who do nothing to stop homosexual sins are the ones who homosexuals should have a problem with, because they know the judgment homosexuals will recieve from God if they die before repenting for their sin, yet they do nothing to help them.

        • Rachel W.

          I. Can. Not.

        • Parque_Hundido

          We call these “delusions of persecution.” You should seek help.

        • Christological Controversies

          The idea that God the Father can suffer is known as patripassion, and was debunked as a problem with the Modalism heresy propagated by Sabellius. This heresy was condemned by Dionysius, Bishop of Rome, c. 262 AD.

      • faustinaagatha

        Sexuality is about procreating and forming families. Jesus said that God made them male and female and the two shall become one. It is not about self gratification but the creating of souls. The homosexual movement is about the destruction of the famiily.

        • Standtall909

          Thumbs up!

        • FriendlyNeighborhoodSpiderman

          So people who are sterile shouldn’t get married?

          GG SON.

          • faustinaagatha

            It is about being open to life. Even a sterile person should not view their marriage partners as a means to scratch that itch. It is a life long commitment that no man should tear asunder. An infertile couple would need to figure out how to make their marriage fruitful to God’s kingdom in other ways.

          • H

            If “an infertile couple would need to figure out how to make their marriage fruitful to God’s kingdom in other ways”, why can’t homosexual couples do the same? If your only reason against homosexual marriage is because “sexuality is about procreating and forming families”, but infertile couples can find other ways to serve, why not homosexuals?

          • faustinaagatha

            Because a Abraham and Sarah moment or an Elizabeth and Zecchariah moment could happen. BTW, I believe that we are in this mess because of the sins of heterosexuals.

      • Standtall909

        LOL…..It’s not Catholics that are discriminating…..it’s God HIMSELF. Catholics just follow HIS commandments. Natural law is God’s Law and homosexual unions are contrary to Natural Law. It’s really just that simple. No discrimination involved. He spells it out for us in scripture. All this hooey about homosexuals being “born” that way is at the very least overblown, but yes, Catholics need to be compassionate and loving to ALL no matter what their sexual orientation. We are ALL God’s children, but to promote and glorify a “union” that God does not approve of and is against his law is to be complaisant in sin.
        “Recognizing homosexual unions under U.S. law won’t affect Catholic teaching on homosexuality and won’t affect marriages in the Catholic Church”……..are you kidding me? Have you thought through the implications of all that? The law suits are already starting to hit the courts and it WILL NOT be long before they drag the Church into it. The “gay mafia” is on the move and the Church is their prime target. They WILL INDEED be dragging the Church into court for “discrimination”. Just a matter of time.

    • Jeff Jankowiak

      John…you can promote the sanctity of marriage but do it in the right way. I would suggest you start with the divorce rate and the abandonment of children and stop focusing on this small red herring.

      • InRespectForGod

        Jeff, this is not a small red herring. Every child has a right to a father and mother, because both are needed to procreate with God the child. Both are needed as that child grows, so they have a balance of masculinity and femininity in their life. Both are needed for different factors that help the child mature to understand sexuality and its proper use in their life. There is a definitive study that shows this isn’t a red herring, those children with natural father AND mother did better in all aspects of life as an adult. Those with only one parent succeeded only slightly less, but those with same-sex parents had a significant problem adapting to their mature responsibilities and understanding their sexuality. God defined and science has proven that all humans came from one pair of DNA, one male and one female. This is why this is not a red herring.

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          Do yourself a favor and spend your time and effort on all the divorced families which have only one parent. I know many gay and lesbians families and the kids are doing just fine. In fact not just fine…a lot better than the kids I see killing themselves on our streets.

          • ttdf

            If you read the Bible, it teaches what God says about gay life style. None of it is good. When someone is unrepentant in their sin, why would you ignore them??. Like other sinners, their soul is in the balance. Pray for them to repent and know the saving grace of God. Whatever you do, do not accept any sin as normal. No sin should go unprayed for. We do not encourage A liar to continue lying or a murderer to continue killing. Why would you encourage anyone to stay in sin???

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            I am sorry you are so lost in the writings of men. We all understand that men have an “ick” factor on this subject. I am sorry they feel this way. I know our GOD never wrote anything on this subject and that men have taken the liberty to improvise in his name. Well…I am sorry…admonish me..I do not trust in the evil words of men.

          • MillerJM

            Your logic is again horrible. You’re a man – do you not trust your own words? If not, that makes at least two of us.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            I trust the brain GOD gave me. I am not one to be lead by the evil writings of men before me. I read them..but I am not required to trust them. It is only GOD and JESUS I trust absolutely.

          • g tapia

            Please read Englishmanif.blogspot.mx to learn what the truth is about these children deprived of their father and mother.
            and you are right, it is urgent to work harder to help families to stick together: for better or worse, in sicknes and in health,…. and substitute selfishness with love, service , generosity , forgiveness and many other virtues, and really try to live them again in all families. Thats where Happiness really is.
            Statistics show that kids in their natural families do best in all aspects.
            children growing withe their parents are the best for the whole of societies.
            God Bless you.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            Yes…and I have had first hand experience with excellent children of gay and lesbian parents. They have been truly blessed.
            I am so glad that you agree.

          • Brendan

            http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tick-for-samesex-families-20130605-2npxf.html

            A study at Melbourne University which is still underway is so far giving evidence to homosexual parents being, in fact, /better/ at parenting than heterosexual parents. So, no, ‘natural’ families are not better in all aspects–they might be worse!

          • MillerJM

            Why not you’d on everything at once? Your logic is lacking. The medical field doesn’t focus on cancer instead of stroke. We can walk and chew gum at the same time here. Jesus didn’t say one thing at the expense of another.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            Miller…see your problem is your animosity towards gays, lesbians and their families. You are trying to tear them apart. How is that helping them? Hopefully you will learn in the end.

        • FriendlyNeighborhoodSpiderman

          So sterile couples shouldn’t be married?

          GG SON.

        • Parque_Hundido

          Could you please share that study! No one else seems to know about it. This is important as so many courts have rejected all the “research” presented by the by the anti-gays in their court cases as tendentious crap. You alone seem to know about a study that proves what the anti-gay people are claiming. Why haven’t you come forward before now?

    • ACivilSociety

      Shouldn’t your resources be more allocated to the issues of divorce rates and abortion / contraceptives? If you want to preach to others you should first maybe clean up your back yard a bit? Marriage to my understanding is :till death do us part. Yet almost any poll can show you divorce rates in america are up to 50%. You talk about preserving the sanctity of what a marriage should be but the very thing you find salient isn’t so sanctifying as you make it out to be. many of you’re very brothers and sisters that are allowed to get married have defiled your so called “traditional marriages” with divorces and separations; leaving kids with 1 parent or inadequate places of healthy growth.

      I am 100% fine with agreeing to disagree and I am open to accept that you have your views; that I have mine. But dont you consider that the overall underlining problem is that it’s not the title of marriage many gay couples seek, its the legal rights that are granted with marriage (which still to this day I cannot understand how religion and politics are still mixed in this diversified county; its absolutely absurd).

      I believe you have your right to believe what a marriage is, I have no problem with it, because it doesn’t affect me. I understand that it is your right to believe as such. But are we all not granted that same right as well? This constant back and forth bashing ultimately solves nothing until both sides can form a civil space to actively and honestly attempt to understand each other.

    • The Truth Will Set You Free

      Dear John Ritchie and Friends,

      I kindly ask you to read these two articles, and perhaps understand this university. It is highly unfair to communicate such slanderous statements about Notre Dame, its students, and its administration when you seem to barely understand the university’s work. So please read this article with an open mind, and read it in its entirety.

      One example, Father Jenkins and Notre Dame’s student club, Right to Life, led the March for Life last January in Washington DC at the invitation of national pro-life organizations. 700 students and faculty attended the march. Of course, news outlets such as yours ignore such strong acts of Catholic faith and instead acts as a moral police force to Catholic universities. Why not proclaim the good news like Jesus so often urged us to do?

      March for Life: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/university-of-notre-dame-to-lead-march-for-life-700-students-and-faculty-to

      Pope Francis on Notre Dame: http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/pope-francis-notre-dame

      Thank you and God Bless,
      A Notre Dame Student

  • Maggie Sullivan

    N.D. is a joke, they have sold their souls to satan. But hey, they are planning on building one of the greatest football stadiums ever built. You gotta luv it, ND supports abortion, sodomy, and spends tens of millions on football as children are starving. At least when they sold their souls they are doing it in style.

    • You’ve gotta be kidding

      You’re so backwards, it’s ridiculous. Worry about your own soul, let us handle ours. ND does NOT support abortion and sodomy. Where on earth did you get that information? Neither does it support “starving children” because in case you haven’t taken the time to do some research, ND has several volunteering programs locally, nationally, and internationally. To be quite honest, you’re the joke, and I’m laughing. Hard.

      • Don Jr Max

        just so you know, social justice not in light of church teaching is nothing but humanitarian.

      • Maggie Sullivan

        N.D. has made a joke out of the Catholic faith. Most of the students support the soul destroying sickness of sodomy.

        • nah

          You are correct on this point! Well except that “sodomy” isn’t “soul destroying.” I mean even you would probably admit that acts of sodomy between loving married straight people is ok, right? or no?

          • Maggie Sullivan

            The Church has always taught acts of sodomy even between women and men are intrinsically disordered and possibly (depending on conditions) a mortal sin.

          • nah

            Have you ever considered that the church might be wrong about something?

          • Maggie Sullivan

            Have you ever considered one man placing another mans reproductive organ in his behind then in his mouth might be wrong?

          • I’m serious

            Sins like greed and wrath hurt human relationships and have widespread damage. You’re talking about something that two people consent to and nobody else is affected by. How is it as wrong as you say it is? It doesn’t hurt you or anyone else, so why do you care so much?

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            Maggie…you think to much about this. Please tell me you are not for big government which needs to be in everyone’s bedroom.

          • elcer

            Not on matters of faith and morals!!

          • scragsma

            No. Sodomy is always wrong, always soul-destroying. It’s a perversion of biology and a distortion of a beautiful God-given unitive act that belongs only between a married (male-female) couple.

        • I’m serious

          Please explain exactly how sodomy destroys souls. What is it about sodomy that puts it on the same plane as sins like murder?

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          Maggie…you are so wrong.

          • Maggie Sullivan

            N.D. = Mario Cuomo and his speech that has given cover to baby killing Catholics. Fr. McBrian and his separating ND from Church teaching. The countless pro-baby killing and pro-sodomy students at ND. And the faculty members who promote the culture of death.
            The list is endless…………………

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            Please stay on topic and stop ranting about contraception and abortion. There are other threads for that. And the sodomy comment is just insulting.

  • Parque_Hundido

    As usual, the TFP people come across as unglued. There is no biblical support for the idea that the Christian god was married to a woman. Also, those outfits make them look like protofascists.

    • scragsma

      Huh? Where on earth did you get the idea that TFP was saying God was married to a woman? I think you need to look again. And maybe remove your comment, rather than continue to appear an utter fool.

      • Parque_Hundido

        Sweetie, it’s written on their poster. They believe that god was married to a woman. It’s freaky, it’s baseless, but it’s NOT MY IDEA. It’s theirs. You’re welcome.

        • NDjunior

          You honestly can’t be serious, can you? Correctly parsing the banner would tell you that the statement “God’s marriage” signifies the biblical definition of marriage, not a marriage that God Himself entered into. And wearing suits hardly counts as “proto-fascist,” whatever that means

          • Parque_Hundido

            Are you unable to read English? They claim that their god’s marriage involved a man and a woman. No Christian god was ever married. It’s plain as day, in black and white. These people are insane.

          • Gloria Alatorre

            In proper English refer to Him as God.

          • Gloria Alatorre

            Wearing suits is something many men don ‘t do today. There has been a completely lost of good and polished appearance and manners. That is why we see so many unkempt, sloppy, dirty looking people. There is something very true “the way you dress, the way you behave” .

    • Mike Albertone

      The reason the sign says “God’s Marriage” is not because it was God who was married but because God “owns” the institution of marriage. It was his creation, not man’s. Even the naysayers know what the sign means.

      • Parque_Hundido

        I’m not convinced. These people are so unglued that I think my interpretation is correct. Besides, no one “owns” the institution of marriage. Even these people can’t be so dumb that they think that the Christian god “owns” marriage. That’s just ridiculous.

        • Mike Albertone

          How is that ridiculous? All of creation belongs to God, therefore God owns everything. He owns you and He owns me. We are simply stewards of His creation here on earth. If you don’t understand this about Christianity, then you don’t understand much.

          • Parque_Hundido

            You must be insane. Marriage existed long before your little religion. Or are you one of this who think Jesus walked with the dinosaurs? I thought I’d heard everything.

          • Mike Albertone

            So, marriage existed when there was just the dinosaurs?? Marriage can’t exist until humans exist and as far as we can tell, Judaism existed since man existed. The Christian idea of marriage comes from the Jewish idea of marriage, so that has been our understanding since the beginning of marriage.

  • gespinb3549

    “I initially came out because I saw their signs [Thursday], and I was personally offended,”

    Why are you offended? Either you are Catholic or you are not. If the truth offends you then you are not Catholic, therefore why are you in a Catholic University? GET OUT.

    • nah

      Notre Dame is a university that is, in fact, open to non-Catholics! Crazy, right?!

      • gespinb3549

        nah, I understand that, but if one is not muslim and attends a muslim university, does one start yapping about how offensive sharia law is with reference to the treatment of raped women? No.

        If one is not jewish and attends a jewish university, does not start yapping about how offensive it is that there are no acknowledgements affirming the salvific need for Jesus Christ? No.

        So why cannot someone who is not catholic and yet attending a catholic university, keep their offensive mouths shut with regard to their non-catholic opinions? Keep in mind that we are talking about Notre Dame which has in recent history shown it’s open hostility to the catholic church and in particular to her teachings.

        • nah

          …because it’s a university? Part of an undergraduate education is being exposed to different ideas. You don’t find it at all odd that you’re suggesting college students refrain from expressing differing viewpoints? I mean really. That seems pretty obviously ridiculous.

        • wat

          So people don’t have the right to disagree with an academic institution if they don’t share its religion? That makes no sense. How rude of you to wave off people with different religious backgrounds by telling them to “keep their offensive mouths shut”. Notre Dame is a university, not the Vatican itself. Shoot, the Vatican is still full of academic discourse on Church history and theology and such. Your vision seems like a school where everyone is the same and only one truth is right and no civil disagreement and discussion is allowed. This is the exact opposite of anything academic.

          • Gloria Alatorre

            All of you intellectuals or pseudo-intellectuals, go give your discourses somewhere else but don’t look to attend specificically Christian or any other religious houses of learning if you do not agree with their founding views. Go make your waves somewhere else.

          • Don’t Get It

            “Only one truth is right…” what a bizarre idea. 😛 So for me, 1 + 1 = 2, but for you, it might be 3?

          • Zach Weems

            1 + 1 = 2 under the currently accepted axioms of mathematical logic and number theory. This has been proven beyond reasonable doubt.
            The “truths” spread under Catholic doctrine are not based on concrete axioms, and the arguments for them fall short of the rigor of mathematical logic. Thus, there is a difference in how much we ought to question a doctrinal proposition and this mathematical statement.

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          ND is trying to be an advocate for change within the church. This has happened since the beginning and will continue to the end. This is just another evolution to our faith. We have stopped selling off our daughters, stopped stoning them on Saturday morning for their infractions from Friday night, and have removed slavery from our country.

          • I know how Lot felt

            Oh, dear…when have Catholics ever sold their daughters or stoned them on Saturday morning? Please…

            And the moral law does NOT evolve. Truth is Truth is Truth, yesterday, today and tomorrow. God does not ‘evolve’. Homosexual activity, to include the fallacy of homosexual ‘marriage’ will never be part of ‘our faith’. It is heresy and a sin.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            Excuse me? People like you just revel in rewriting history. In the Elizabeth I reign in England daughters were chattal to be traded for favors and money. As for stoning…the bible says it is so. You say everything in there is the truth.
            As for evolution…GOD gave us a brain to evolve. If he did not intend us to we would still be scratching words in the dirt with stick in some cave. As for heresy and sin…you sound like the screaming woman in the front row of burning at the stake event.

          • InRespectForGod

            Jeff, too bad none of the examples you give have a thing to do with the Church. Notre Dame was founded as a Catholic university with adherence to the Catechism of the Church as written and taught from tradition for over 2000 years. The Church teaches the same morals and truth today as it did by the Apostles after Jesus Christ’s death. Nothing has changed in the morals or traditions of the Church, only the how-to live a life centered on Christ has changed. The only result of organizations trying to advocate for change is a schism with the Truth.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            Sorry. I don’t buy that. If what you are saying is true women would not even be allowed to attend. Minorities would still be slaves and serving in the cafeteria. You need to do better than this.

      • Gloria Alatorre

        Not really, that is what Christianity is all about, open arms to those who look for the truth, reason, and light. However, if that is what one is looking for, one should respect their foundation.

    • Gloria Alatorre

      Yeah!

  • Johnny Whichard

    No matter what side of the debate you swing on, being “personally offended” because a group is expressing their personal moral beliefs is pathetic…especially given that Notre Dame is a Catholic school and this group was proclaiming beliefs that are specifically inline with the Catechism.

    • nah

      I find it offensive that people want to restrict my full civil equality. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Believe what you want, that’s obviously fine. But when you try to legislate based on your religious views, it becomes pretty offensive! I’m sure you can see that.

      • Johnny Whichard

        I don’t know what all TFP stands for…but to see a sign saying something along the lines of “God’s Marriage is one man and one woman” and to instantly be “offended”? There was no mention of further examination of the group’s beliefs or stances.. The Catholic Church agrees with the sign they had displayed. Sounds like this girl who freaked out and those who think like her should have a huge beef with the Catholic Church. That’s my point…but thanks for assuming I was talking about legislation when I clearly wasn’t.

        • nah

          Are you the arbiter of what people can and can’t be offended by? We all have unique backgrounds and viewpoints. I find a lot of views offensive. It’s a pretty subjective thing.

          • Johnny Whichard

            Of course not. But if this girl is offended by that sign, she should be offended by the Catholic Church which teaches that God’s marriage is between a man and a woman. If she is offended by the Catholic Church, why would she come to Notre Dame? This school is for everybody who has enough merit to get in, but it is also Catholic.

          • nah

            I reject the premise that anyone who goes to ND should be expected to agree with the Catholic Church on everything, or failing that, just shut up about points of disagreement. As I pointed out elsewhere, this is a university we are talking about here. Not a monastery.

          • Gloria Alatorre

            Is it so difficult to understand that there are many other colleges and universities that follow no specific religious believes? Why attend a Catholic or any Christian college and then try to change their core? That is called stubbornness to be polite.

          • Don’t Get It

            Believe it or not, it was the Catholic monks and priests who started this whole higher education thing… the cathedral schools, the monastery schools… Society has appropriated them and now thinks it’s audacious for Catholicism to have any inherent ties with education.

          • Jigsawed

            It’s a Catholic Institution… Don’t you EVER forget that…

          • Marge

            still catholic and should uphold catholic laws, regardless and anyone who applies knows it and should abide by it or get out and also don’t be offended when people of faith display their faith and talk about their faith.

          • Standtall909

            Or SUPPOSED to be Catholic

          • H

            “This school is for everybody who has enough merit to get in, but it is also Catholic”

            Not true. I don’t care if the University’s policies with respect to the world are Catholic, but the students don’t have to stand by the University’s beliefs. Plus, any policy discriminates against any student at the university is unrighteous.

      • JRB

        Sodomy deserves scorn, not “equality.”

        • nah

          …even if it’s between married adults? Just trying to get a handle on where you’re coming from here.

          • scragsma

            Yes, even if.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Ironic, isn’t it. You’re the object of scorn here yet you try to turn the tables. It’s not going to work. Bigots will lose this battle. When will you people learn?

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          Your use of the term “sodomy” is offensive and cruel. Next time you say it I urge you to look to the right and to the left. You may one day get cold-clocked when you least expect it.

          • InRespectForGod

            Really, you think that violence is the answer to forcing others to accept sin. Truth will always win, truth has already won. The question for you to consider is why you reject the love of God, shown through others, by admonishing the sinner, educating the uninformed, and praying for the living and the dead.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            No. Violence is wrong. I am just saying when you use offensive language and words just be ready to receive a response. Lets put it like this…what if a KKK follower walked into a bar and used negative words. Would he not be subject to retribution? I think gays and lesbians are just tired of turning the other cheek. Seems like the owner of the LA Clippers learned that today. I would suggest JRB pay attention.

          • Don’t Get It

            This just goes to show how people who don’t have an answer resort to the bottom line — violence. Please note these TFP students didn’t feel the need to prove their arguments that way…

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            Sorry…the violence begins when you feel you have a GOD given right to debase one of creatures. I do not propose violence but I don’t think JRB should be crying “religious persecution” when he gets his just rewards.

          • TruthSeeker

            You say you are against violence and do not propose it, then call it ‘just rewards’. Unbelievable!!! What a flat contradiction. This demonstrates how you really feel – violence upon faithful Christians is just but you use nice words to cover up your true feelings.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            I do not want violence against Christians. I have never suggested anything as such. But when a buffoon who calls himself a Christian attacks another he better be prepared for the reactions he receives. Lets do the right thing and follow every Mom’s rule….If you can’t say something nice don’t say anything at all”.

          • scragsma

            Why do you consider it ‘offensive and cruel’ to use the objectively accurate word?

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            If it was being used as an objectively accurate word I see no problem. But when it has been mixed with bile…then I have a problem.

      • Jeepers

        Sorry, I thought it was you legislating your beliefs on society. Marriage has been defined for thousands of years. It is highly offensive that you change a definition of marriage, then ban heterosexuals from civil partnerships.

        • Zach Weems

          There are movements to make civil partnerships available to heterosexuals as well. “nah” is not attempting to ban you from them.
          The definition of civil marriage is not set in stone. In the past 3,000 years, common permutations of it included polygamy, child-marriage, and forced marriage. We simply believe that an alteration to allow male-male and female-female couples in the US to sign binding marriage contracts will be a positive one.

      • Jigsawed

        Then don’t go to Notre Dame if you don’t espouse Catholic teachings.

      • nsolcis

        you are trying to legislate based on your personal belief that a person is born gay, even though there is no biological or scientific basis, hence making it your belief. and now you would strip others of free speech because their beliefs offend you? don’t be a hippo.

      • Marge

        It is unreaasonable when you are attending aCatholic university. If you are that offended, t hen leave the school. It’s a catholic university, the can act on their religious view all they want. you are offensive.

    • I’m creeping

      People have a right to feel offended by people who say hateful things about them. Even though the Church is supposed to love and accept everyone, including gay people, their message often gets wrapped up in hate. How would you feel if people went around saying that you are perverted and disgusting just because of a characteristic you had no control over?

      People praise those who enter the religious life as being honorable for sacrificing the ability to have a family and committing themselves to celibacy. Gay people are forced into celibacy by Catholic teaching, receive no support when facing this challenge, and face lots of prejudice and condemnation. To me, that sounds like grounds to be personally offended.

      • Johnny Whichard

        Again, you are looking to deep in my comment. My point wasn’t to defend TFP at all. My point was that if this girl was offended by a sign that says “God’s marriage is for a man and a woman” she should be offended by the entire Catholic Church thus making me question her sanity in choosing to attend Notre Dame.

        • wat

          “Question her sanity”? This is a university. Universities are supposed to be a place for sharing ideas, not some weird authoritarian echo chamber where everyone says and believes the exact same things. How about I question your sanity since you expect all community members to believe the same exact Catholic things but you went to a school instead of a cult. Why do you get to tell some person how they’re supposed to feel and think?

          • scragsma

            Interesting that you think universities are a place for sharing ideas, but also think it’s OK or even good that a small group sharing an idea was forced to leave. No one was telling anyone else how to feel and think, just proposing an idea and inviting discussion.

          • wat

            “Interesting that you think universities are a place for sharing ideas, but also think it’s OK or even good that a small group sharing an idea was forced to leave. ”
            I never said that at all, nor do I agree with that statement. The article explicitly states that the organization was asked to leave by NDSP because they violated university policies on outsiders distributing information and photography/video. They were not ousted by students. On the contrary, several students interviewed in the article talked to TFP so they could learn more about their mission, even if they had different opinions on marriage.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            They were not asked to leave because of their beliefs. If you read the article they were asked to leave because they did not properly register and they were filming students on campus.

          • Gloria Alatorre

            Sharing ideas that are objective is one thing, trying to impose a general acceptance of a bizarre behavior is something very different. A Catholic college will and should adhere to its Catholic teachings and those who do not agree with them, should choose other place of learning.

        • Bubbachewie

          If she are offended by them that is her prerogative. The problem I have is rather than let them speak what they have to say she wants to shut them up. People should be allowed to say what they believe so that others may be allowed to formulate their own opinions. Just because person A is offended by person B belief it does not make person A’s belief just and correct.

      • Joan

        You are not speaking the truth “receive no support when facing this challenge”. The Catholic church does reach out to all people regardless of their situation. You confuse their stance on the homosexual lifestyle with acceptance of the person. We all have tendencies with need to be tempered. The Catholic church supports our struggles to conform to God’s will.

      • faustinaagatha

        Many people, not just Gays are “forced into celibacy”. Think of every one who wanted to be married and have children but could not find a suitable mate.

      • Stephen K

        I understand what you mean. However, the booth was not about saying that gays/lesbians are “perverted or disgusting.” Their point was that their belief is that gay marriage is not Biblical and not moral.
        There’s a difference. If I lie to you, that doesn’t mean I’m a terrible person. That means that I am sinning, and I need to change.
        In the same way, the goal of TPF is not to say that gay/lesbian people are terrible. The goal was to try to show their side of the picture.
        As for their side of the picture. You mentioned that gay people “have a characteristic that they have no control over.” I staunchly disagree. As someone who has had gay attraction, I can tell you that I have control over my attraction. I firmly believe it is wrong, and regardless of whether I have “tendencies” towards being gay or not doesn’t mean that it’s right.
        Being gay is a choice. Not an uncontrollable urge. And I can tell you that from experience.
        Gay people are some of the kindest people that I have met. But that doesn’t mean that they are perfect. Honestly, I’m not perfect either. It’s not wrong to say that someone is doing something wrong.
        All TPF was trying to do was spread their opinion on gay marriage. Not call gay people perverted and disgusting.

    • Gloria Alatorre

      I completely agree with you Johnny. A Catholic school should teach and practice Catholicism. Those who are opposed to this, should go to a secular school.

      • Rachel W.

        Oh.

      • IE

        You have to be kidding me.

  • ND parent and alum

    The issue isn’t whether Notre Dame is open to differing views, or whether they are ‘Catholic enough’, both are likely true. The disappointment is that students didn’t have the conviction of their beliefs enough to engage in an open conversation on campus. Instead, they bring in outsiders to deliver the message.

    if the members of Orestes Brownson Council feel this discussion needs to occur, then stand out there and voice your opinion so that your classmates can agree or disagree with you. Those students who did just that should be admired, regardless of which side of the argument they fall on.

    ‘What would you fight for?’ indeed…

    • scragsma

      Don’t be daft. The students wouldn’t have invited them if they didn’t have the conviction of their beliefs. TFP was in the area, and had the materials to present the message in a way the students couldn’t afford to. The students were certainly there with TFP.

      • Parque_Hundido

        No darling. That’s not the case. The TFP are little proto fascists. No one wants to be seen in public with them. They have funny ideas about Christianity and they’re weird. No, no, no.

        • Mike Albertone

          Is that an argument? Or just name calling. There is nothing fascists about there message and many are happy to be seen in public with them. They tour the country and receive an overwhelmingly positive response. There are naysayers for sure, and they have their right to disagree, but your statement is factually incorrect.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Not the case at all. They’re chased out of pretty much every venue they visit. And the TFP have a history in Latin American and Europe. They’re basically the KKK in school-boy garb. Sorry, but you don’t appear to know much about this group.

          • Mike Albertone

            Actually, I am on their mailing list and see videos of their demonstrations all over the country. They do tend to go to college campuses where they know their message will be less popular and do definitely meet resistance but they also get a lot of support. When they go places that are not college caompuses, the reception is overwhelmingly positive. And I have never once seen them get violent or curse at anybody, which is a lot more than I can say about those that disagree with them. In the face of name calling, cursing, and destruction of their property, they always remain calm and collected. That doesn’t sound like the fascists groups about which I have heard.

          • scragsma

            The TFP has never been ‘chased out of’ any venue. You don’t have the right to make up your own facts. The fact is, they are welcomed almost universally. They’re peaceful even in the face of the violence they receive from their (always very few) opponents.

          • Parque_Hundido

            They’ve been chased out of almost every venue they’ve visited. The only ones they’ve not been chased out of are those whiere they brought their fascist protest to a public street. Sorry, you don’t appear to know much about this group.

        • E. Murray

          Facists were a political party in Italy in the 1930s. The Catholic Church has been teaching that homosexuality is one of the 4 sins that cry to Heaven for Gods vengeance for 2,000 years. It is that message that TFP carry, not the message of the political party in 1930s Italy. It is you who are weird.

      • Zach Weems

        No members of the Orestes Brownson Council were present at the table, if this is what you meant.

  • scragsma

    “Equality”? Same-sex relationships are inherently different than heterosexual relationships, and to claim ‘equality’ of ‘rights’ is illogical. There is no ‘right’ to marriage, whether you’re homosexual or heterosexual. Or rather, all have the same ‘right’ to marriage – which is the lifetime exclusive committed union of one man and one woman for the benefit of the couple and of the children born to the union.

    • nah

      Clearly this is not the case anymore though. Luckily for me you don’t get to make these types of decisions unilaterally!

    • WhatAboutTheBigPicture

      Great point. No one has a fundamental human right to the institution of marriage. But here in the U.S., couples have the option to obtain recognition as a couple and obtain the legal benefits that come with it. Homosexual and heterosexual individuals experience love and companionship in the same way. There is no difference between a heterosexual couple and a homosexual couple except for their sexual orientations. Granting legal rights to one couple but refusing those rights to an equivalent couple based on sexual orientation is discrimination. If you want to deny homosexuals the right to marry on the basis of childbearing incapability, then by that reasoning infertile couples are banned from marriage and elderly couples must divorce once the wife goes through menopause.

      The gay marriage debate is in the context of the U.S. legal system. U.S. legalization of gay marriage will not change Catholic teachings. There are no valid non-religious reasons for why gay legal marriage should be banned.

      • axel

        Can we see that right applies only where nature enables? The two partners of an homosexual couple have together only one gender. Only an heterosexual couple has two genders and from the two genders, complementarity. From a biological point of view, that complementarity offers fecundity. Nature shows that only an heterosexual couple can have an offspring. Where a couple of individuals has only one gender, there is no complementarity of genders and no offspring. Not my opinion, just basic fact of nature. Therefore marriage is not naturally possible for a couple of individuals of same gender. No one has the authority to give it or to take it away. Obviously enough, the right does not exist.The quarrel then is a quarrel about the definition of the word. Since all sexual orientations are recognized by the law, one has to wonder why some of us want to change the definition of the word “marriage”.

      • scragsma

        Oh, no. Homosexual and heterosexual relationships are INHERENTLY different, and cannot be considered the same. To claim equality or even equivalence is biologically and socially absurd. If the state wants to grant similar rights to households that represent deviant lifestyles, that’s their prerogative, but it’s counterproductive to nature and to the fundamental purpose of government, to provide order in society based on logical principles – and we have not only the right but the obligation to fight such a destructive and irrational action.
        As has been proven, legalizing gay ‘marriage’ (besides being bad for the individuals and society in general) violates the rights of those who don’t wish to actively endorse it. Prosecution, fines, jail time for florists, photographers, bakers simply because they asked – even freely referred to other providers – homosexual couples because they could not in conscience participate in so-called ‘weddings’. So much for same-sex ‘marriage’ not harming anyone.

        • Hypocritical

          If you can say that legalizing gay marriage violates your rights since you don’t endorse it, than I can say that my rights are violated when gay marriage is banned since I endorse it. The fact of the matter is that neither of our rights are violated just because someone a homosexual person can now visit their sick partner in the hospital like a heterosexual spouse could.

          You said it yourself that no one has a right to marriage. If no one has a right to marriage, then surely no one has a right to decide other’s right to marriage.

          • Mike Albertone

            That is incorrect logic. Our rights do not come from government, they come from God. Our Declaration of Independence spells this out. All men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights…governments are instituted among men to secure these rights. So, God grants rights and governments secure the rights that God grants. So, shouldn’t we be asking what God thinks!

          • M

            Well, you see, we have this thing called Church and State. Yes, people are “endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights” but it doesn’t mean that laws have to be based on your religion.

    • Parque_Hundido

      Here’s the thing: your opinion on this is simply not shared by anyone who matters. Every time you people say that nonsense to a judge you lose. You’re entitled to your wacky little views but you can’t be surprised when others regard you as a few cards short of a full deck. You honestly thought you could legally impair a group you dislike because of your feelings? Your superstitions? That defines insane.

      • scragsma

        I don’t dislike anyone. If you can refute anything I said, go ahead and give it your best shot, but simply calling names isn’t an argument. And I’d say that God, who shares my ‘opinion’ on this, certainly does matter!

        • Parque_Hundido

          You seem to have a lot of hatred to spew at gay people. Every one of your posts reflects that hatred. Someone as bitter and twisted as you’ve become is in no position to offer moral or religious advice to anyone. You need help.

  • Shawn

    Hey guys, this argument is way more clear when you simply accept that the TFP’s message, which is a reflection of catholic teaching, is disgustingly hateful.

    • Gloria Alatorre

      Talk for yourself.

    • scragsma

      Really? Please explain what about it is ‘disgusting’ or ‘hateful’ – and be sure you’re representing what their message actually IS, rather than some distortion of it.

  • Katie Mattie

    24 ND students show their support for our LGBTQ brothers and sisters in this video made over the weekend.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okFeLJkidkQ&feature=youtu.be

    • scragsma

      24 misguided ND students. If you oppose what the TFP stands for, please phrase your opposition in rational terms.

      • No, YOU use rational terms

        All she said was that the students were showing support – NOT that the students were petitioning for gay marriage, just that they support and love their LGBTQ classmates. Is it really “misguided” to love and support members of our community?

  • John Ritchie
    • Jeff Jankowiak

      Seems pretty cruel and demeaning to a minority of the population. Not quite sure that is what JESUS had in mind.

      • InRespectForGod

        Actual Jesus told the Apostles to go a proclaim the Gospel of Truth to the whole world. Since the Gospel includes the phrase “a man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and they will be one flesh” it seems TFP is doing just what Jesus demanded the Apostles to do, proclaim the truth.

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          Yes…but he did not anoint you to do so. As for the man leaving his father and mother…and become one flesh. I assume you can claim you have done so. But I bet 50% of your neighbors had to have some serious surgery.

      • Stephen K

        Jesus said to the adulterous woman after he saved her from the stoning, “go and sin no more.”
        First he saved her, then he told her to change. He did it in kindness. While I do admit, not all Christians confront sin in kindness, is it really arrogant and unkind to tell people that they are doing something wrong?

  • Rey Flores

    It is pathetic that a “Catholic” university named after the Blessed Virgin Mary is instead siding with the homofascist cry babies that demand “tolerance”, but give none to Christians.

    • Jeff Jankowiak

      Please…stop being so dramatic. Your use of these negative words reveals your animus toward gays and lesbians. Not quite sure JESUS would be using those words.

      • scragsma

        He might not have used those words, but He might have. The Gospels record Him saying some pretty in-your-face words and phrases to those who opposed Him. In any case, we can know with certainty that He would be grieved by the actions of those who oppressed the TFP display.

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          If he was so angry about gays and lesbians why did he not saying anything about it? He did not and you know it. Men centuries later created this nonsense to control the masses.

          • Ryan Masog

            Jesus created Catholicism and centuries later men changed his teachings to manipulate the masses. God destroyed Sodom and Gommorha because of their wicked ways. That’s where the name sodomy comes from.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            JESUS did not create Catholicism…he began christianity. The RCC was created by men who believed they had a direct telephone line to JESUS. And clearly many of them have had a real disconnect. As for Sodom and Gommorah..I ask you to stop the foolish fairy tales. And I ask you to point out Sodom and Gomorrah on a map. Oh…sorry you cannot.

  • Tim Woods

    I don’t understand what is offensive about marriage being define as one man and one woman. What is offensive about that? On another point, we all sin. But gays and lesbians are trying to say that a particular sin is not a sin. We need to revisit what sin is. I always thought it was not doing God’s will. Now of course, if there is no God, there is no sin. Maybe at the heart of all this is not a civil liberty, but simply a loss of faith. If I say “God Is”, is that offensive?

    • Jeff Jankowiak

      But Tim…you do not get to define what GOD wants. That is his job and no mans. These too our GODS’s creations and I am not willing to question his judgment.

      • I know how Lot felt

        He has defined it quite clearly and you are clearly questioning His judgment.

        And the Lord God said: It is not good for man to be alone: let us make him a help like unto himself…And the Lord God built the rib which he took from Adam into a woman: and brought her to Adam…Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh.

        If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both
        have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be
        upon them.

        Who answering, said to them: “Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said:
        For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.”

        It is all very clear. And yes, all men were created by God, but God created the person, not the perversion of their sexual desires.

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          That are your selected scriptures. They have been translated, redacted, edited, retranslated and then finally interpreted by your minister. You are welcome to them. I learned other things from these great readings. That is my right and my right to call myself a good Christian.

          • Ryan Masog

            So where is your Bible from Jeff? Catholicism was the first Christian religion and made the first Bible. You interpret your own meanings as if the scriptures can mean anything and everything. Something cannot mean two opposite things. Jesus Christ was the founder of Catholicism.

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            I dont think that is any of your business. I get to interpret my faith the way I wish. And yes there are many things in the bible which are interpreted different ways. That is why we have so many preachers running around out there.

      • scragsma

        No, we don’t have the right to define what God wants. But we do have the obligation to accept what HE has told us He wants.

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          No…you are quoting what men wrote GOD said thousands of years ago. To compound the problem you are reading translated, redacted, edited, retranslated and then interpreted writings of men. And these men were mortal just like you and me.

      • Old teller

        How do YOU know what God wants? Did He send an angel to tell you His thoughts and laws, and rules? If so, please tell us all your exact revelation, so we can understand all of His Laws, and thank you enlightened one. Blessings, and Christs love to you, because we are all thirsting for love. Real Love comes from following moral, and natural law written on our hearts, and written into the chaste ism of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the rock on which Notre Dame was founded(Our Lady, and she is full of love for all is sinners. When we fall into sexual sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual immoral sin, or just abandon our purity in general, Our Good Lady, Our Great God, are there waiting with loving arms to embrace us, and then let us go again to be free, and to sin NO MORE

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          I get to define GOD for myself. I do not need to listen to you nor to some crazy old coot from a few thousand years ago who was using crushed berries as ink and animal skin as paper. If you want to be a lemming and follow that path…good for you. I believe real love comes caring for your fellow humans and treating them with dignity and respect.

  • Carlos Poblet

    Homosexual “pride” has no place in The Church!!! Leadership of homosexuals is doing harm to generations of Catholics!!!

    • Jeff Jankowiak

      Lets dial it down a bit. These people are not asking for pride…they are asking for respect and acceptance. This is not a “lifestyle”…it is their “lives”

      • scragsma

        No, they are asking for respect and acceptance FOR their lifestyle. If they were asking only for respect for themselves as flawed human beings (which we all are), there would be no problem. They want us to approve their false and damaging behavior, which we can’t and won’t do.

        • Jeff Jankowiak

          Thank you Old Master of Universe. You seem to only want to show your animus in your heart. It must be a very dark place in there.

  • Amy Dickas

    In honor of our newly canonized saint Pope John Paul II, why don’t you discover why Pope Francis dubbed him “Pope of the Family?” Read his writings. They go a long way to dispel the confused ideas of marriage held by those offended by the banner.

  • Ralph Rivera

    MT: 19: 3-12, Jesus says, “For some are born that way, and aren’t meant to marry.” Then HE says, “Man must live by every word that comes out of the mouth of the Lord thy God.” Who said that, “For a man to lie with another man as with a woman, is an “Abomination,” in Mine eyes.”

  • Jeff Jankowiak

    I cant believe you just equated gays and lesbians with murderers, thieves, those with anger control problems. You are very disturbed individual.

    • Mike Albertone

      He didn’t “equate” them. He simply said there is help for those people as well. In fact, the point might be that those offensense are worse, and yet the Church gives plenty of help to them.

      • Jeff Jankowiak

        He did, in writing and his thinly veiled undertone. What a tool.

        • Mike Albertone

          So now you know his intentions? I didn’t infer that from what he said. You could be right, but have you ever misinterpreted what someone typed in an e-mail before? How does that make me a “tool?” Aren’t tools used to fix things?

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            I was not referring to you as the tool. I was referring to scragma. And I never profess to know the souls of men. I tend to watch the movie and ignore the script. scragma was acting like a caveman and he deserved to be called out for it. AKA a tool.

  • Ralph Rivera

    p.s. it really boggles my mind that a Catholic University would contradict the will of God. The Church needs to excommunicate those who run Catholic institutions while contrary to God’s will.

  • Reading about the protest against the message of TFP at Our Lady’s university has incredibly saddened and astounded me. Additionally, I am very disheartened to learn that ND allowed such poor treatment to be given to an organization that had been given permission to exhibit, then use specious reasons to withdraw it, no doubt because of those protesters.
    As an alum of another CSC school, I am tremendously concerned with the pursuit of Truth and civility.

    • ReadingComprehension

      The counter-protests were small and peaceful, and TFP had to leave because they violated university rules about recording, videotaping, and distribution of materials. They weren’t ousted for their beliefs; it was their own fault that they were kicked out.

      • scragsma

        Only if they were informed about the restrictions on their display, which they weren’t. I fault the university, which failed to make the rules clear and thus embarrassed themselves.

        • ReadingComprehension

          “Only if they were informed about the restrictions on their display, which they weren’t.” You have literally no idea whether that happened or not. Stop trying to pass off your biased speculations as fact.

          • Mike Albertone

            I agree that he doesn’t know if that was true, but the reverse is also true. You don’t know that they were informed, but you brazenly claim it was their fault! How do you know?

  • Pete

    As a parent of 7 Catholic children, I can tell you non of them will be attending ND.
    Sad state of affairs.

    • Duhhhh

      Nearly every university is open to LGBT discussion at the bare minimum. Most support gay marriage. Good luck sending your children to no college ever.

      • scragsma

        Check out the list of authentically-Catholic colleges published by the Cardinal Newman Society. Good colleges do still exist. They also publish a list for high schools.

  • Carolyn Holt

    It’s very interesting how young people going to a Catholic College like Notre Dame and don’t believe in the Catholic beliefs. Years ago we went to a Charasmatic Convention there and it was very different than being described now. It was peaceful, everyone praising God and no one pushed in line and I felt like everyone there were so different than one experiences in Liberal Colleges. It was like living in a different world. I’m very saddened how the colleges are now. I’ll be praying for Notre Dame to get back to the wonderful Catholic school it once was.
    The young people who were there years ago had everyone fired up on love of Jesus the way it should be.

  • Jeff Jankowiak

    Maggie…you are a very disturbed and unhappy person. Does all this foolishness come with a cattail whip and self-flagellation?

  • Michelle

    What we sow is what we reap. Past few generations with all their liberalism–shacking up, common-law, divorce, abortion etc. etc. is the cause of this prevalent evil in society. Homosexuality has been around since time immemorial but to LEGALIZE it brazenly & openly advocate it to youngsters & innocent children is hideous & outrageous. SHAME ON ALL A M E R I C A!

    • I know how Lot felt

      All true. It’s spelled out clearly in Saint Paul’s Letter to the Romans 1. “For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections…”

      We were warned.

  • Mary Arnold

    I have five kids and I would never send one to this phoney baloney so called Catholic college. No free speech for Catholics on this college campus, so much for being open to ideas. If you are in favor of homosexual activity, welcome to Notre Dame, if you support the biblical structure of marriage, pack your bags and get off our campus ! This story should be mailed to the Vatican.

  • elcer

    Its sounds to me like TFP was there expressing an opinion and the protesters like so many on college campuses cannot abide by an opinion other than their own. I agree that people who do not want to even hear Catholic teaching and/or are offended by it, should not attend a university that purports to be Catholic. Me thinks they may have an agenda too.

    • scragsma

      Correct. The protesters didn’t want to debate the issue, only drown out the message. That’s all they have: noise and denial.

  • DollyT

    Catholic Financial Supporters of Notre Dame should drastically cut their funding and have Campus Security charged with removing radical Leftists from the Campus.Since MONEY
    seems to be the main source of peoples attention then instead of rendering unto the Church that which is Caesar’s render Unto God that which is Gods. My father was a gardener at this College shortly after be migrated here from P.I. and became a citizen. It was a lovely esteemed University. Now its becoming a temple of babble.

  • elcer

    Unfortunately, the homosexual agenda has become more aggressive in the last few decades. They will not tolerate anyone who is against their agenda. A totalitarian attitude favoring it is what is coming down the pike as is witnessed by the fact that some Catholic Charities have had to retreat from adoption services for refusing to allow homosexual adoptions. These protesting students at Notre Dame are just a taste of the future because the profs are touting such agendas. They are calling evil good and good evil and will not be convinced otherwise. It seems we should work on strengthening traditional marriage rather than weakening it.

    • Hypocrite

      I could replace every “homosexual agenda” in this paragraph with “anti-homosexual agenda” and use you as an example. It would be just as correct.

      • elcer

        Homosexual agenda” was only used once and replacing the terms would not change the truth as proclaimed by the church.

      • I know how Lot felt

        Is this an accurate measure of the logic in Notre Dame students these days? Sorry Hypocrite, it would not be just as correct. For one thing, the ‘anti-homosexual agenda’ is no where close to being more aggressive than it was the last few decades. Do you realize that it was only in 2003 that the Supreme Court struck down laws banning sodomy? Homosexuality was only removed from the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual Of Mental Disorders as late as 1973 under massive pressure from, you guessed it, powerful and vicious homosexuals and homosexuals who had infiltrated the APA.

        Also, as elcer points out, pro-homosexuals call evil good and good evil. The same can not be said for those who oppose the homosexualist agenda by supporting the protection of True Marriage. Or do you think True marriage is evil?

        Romans 1, Hypocrite. You are witnessing the fulfillment of its warning right before your very eyes. Open them.

        • scragsma

          Not to mention that the published agenda and aim of the homosexualists (note: their own documents) is to destroy marriage and the family. Funny thing – that’s also a fundamental objective of the Communist Manifesto.

        • Seriously

          “Do you realize that it was only in 2003 that the Supreme Court struck down laws banning sodomy?”

          Interesting you bring this up. Would you like to see this law reinstated? Please tell me more about how you’d enforce a law against sodomy – and keep in mind that banning gay marriage would hardly change whether sodomy occurs or not, both in heterosexual and homosexual couples. I’d really love to hear how you expect to enforce this law.

          • I know how Lot felt

            No, I don’t care if it is reinstated or not. I don’t care what consenting adults do in the PRIVACY of their own bedrooms. (Well, aside from my concern for their immortal souls.) I would think that any halfway intelligent person would have seen right away what my comment was saying. If you couldn’t figure it out, I’ll explain.

            I was merely commenting on the logic fail of the person to whom I replied when they suggested that inserting the words ‘the anti-homosexual agenda’ into the sentence about being more aggressive… is foolish, since clearly the movement isn’t more aggressive today if sodomy was very recently illegal. I’ll add that at the countries founding, it was punishable by death. So, those of us who oppose homosexual activity today, are certainly no where close to as ‘aggressive’ as those in the past. No one is calling for them to be killed or even have their behavior outlawed. We simply refuse to sit idly by while they try to force their redefinition of ‘marriage’ on us and our children. We do not want to be forced into participating with their evil ceremonies through government might, once man made law declares homosexual ‘marriage’ a right. Clear?

            Question for you. Why do you want to destroy the First Amendment of the US Constitution?

            And let it be clear that that is what you are advocating, because homosexual ‘marriage’ rights and Religious Freedom rights can not coexist. We have already seen the proof of that with the photographers, bakers, florists, and church facility owners.

  • Truth

    ND would be honest if it gave up the Catholic brand. It’s long history of Catholic foundation has been eroding away and to still call ND Catholic is a blatant lie.
    Remove the Blessed Sacrament from the campus until you reconcile and begin again to be truly Catholic. Otherwise you are nothing more than a catholic campus in Name only. Small (c)
    God doesn’t change with liberal fads.

  • elcer

    Why does Notre Dame continue to want to be called Catholic? It gave honor to President Obama who has done so much to contradict Catholic teaching with the HHS mandate, the executive order to not enforce the law of the land in the defense of marriage, pushing abortion on unwilling foreign countries through Hilary Clinton as Sec of State, etc.. Yet the university failed for so long to drop the lawsuit against the folks who came to protest Mr. Obama’s presence.
    Please tell me, what IS Catholic about this university? And yes, I do expect students who come from there to be exposed to and respect church teaching.

  • Jack McGrath

    Sad to see a once great Catholic University going this way.

  • elcer

    The abuse problem in the church was primarily a homosexual problem.

    • Disgusting

      Members of the clergy sexually abused CHILDREN, and you call that a homosexual problem? That is so disgusting and disrespectful to homosexual people and to victims of sexual abuse. They didn’t abuse children because they were gay; they abused children because of some perverted desire for control or power.

      People who are supposed to be representatives of the Church did gravely sinful things, and more people who were supposed to be representatives of the Church covered it up. That isn’t the fault of homosexual people or homosexuality; that’s the fault of disturbed people who bring shame to God’s Holy Church and should never have been ordained.

      • I know how Lot felt

        Sorry, Disgusting, but more than 80 percent of the victims of abuse were post-pubescent
        boys, not prepubescent children. The vast vast majority of abusers
        in the clergy abuse scandal are not pedophiles, but are ephebophiles and in fact homosexuals. Facts are facts.

        • Disgusting

          Still minors that can’t give consent. Still completely inappropriate. Members of the Catholic Church still extensively covered up these scandals. Members of the clergy still are guilty of their crimes. Corruption in the hierarchy of the Church is a far greater contributor to this tragedy than homosexuality.

    • Disgusting

      Members of the clergy sexually abused CHILDREN, and you call that a homosexual problem? That is so disgusting and disrespectful to homosexual people and to victims of sexual abuse. They didn’t abuse children because they were gay; they abused children because of some perverted desire for control or power.

      People who are supposed to be representatives of the Church did gravely sinful things, and more people who were supposed to be representatives of the Church covered it up. That isn’t the fault of homosexual people or homosexuality; that’s the fault of disturbed people who bring shame to God’s Holy Church and should never have been ordained.

    • Zach Weems

      It was/is primarily homosexual in that the majority of abuse was between two males. But this is not a gay problem. The perpetrators of this abuse were, in general, outwardly holy men with no associations with gay rights movements.
      I realize you did not explicitly say this, but it is good to keep it in mind: the problems in your church have NOTHING to do with the movement to allow consenting same-sex adults to marry, and everything to do with repressed and amoral clergymen.

    • Parque_Hundido

      I’ve heard this lie before. You’re trying to equate homosexuality with pedophilia. No dice. Institutions that create a structure where adults have absolute power over children will have a pedophilia problem. Sounds like you’re going to Lear this lesson the hard way, with lots of denial.

      • elcer

        It was primarily with teenagers, not children. Pedophilia is pre-pubescent children.

  • I’m creeping

    “There is NO evidence that homosexual tendencies are innate, but even if they were, an adult human being has the ability to control his/her behavior in all circumstances. ”

    That is 100% wrong. There is a large genetic component to homosexuality (http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=495588), and many of the environmental components are due to things like exposure to fetal or maternal hormones in utero. Essentially all of the factors that contribute to a person’s sexual orientation are outside of their control. And if homosexuality WERE a choice (which it’s not), why would anybody choose to be homosexual? I don’t mean this to be a judgment of homosexual people; rather, homosexual individuals face substantial bullying and prejudice for their orientation and have substantially higher rates of depression and suicide due to it. I can’t imagine that anyone would willingly choose an orientation that will cause them great suffering.

    The Church may sympathize with homosexuals, but many followers do not. Maybe they should stop judging others for a minute and correct their own hostile behavior.

    • I’m serious
    • E. Murray

      What you said was speculation, not science. There is no science that proves that homosexuality is innate. Although it is true that some people may be more predisposed to it than others, as some people are more predisposed to anger or alcoholism than others. The fact is that most homosexuals are made by childhood sexual abuse or initiation in adulthood. People choose to be homosexual because it is considered cool and because they are attracted to the gay lifestyle and comraderie. And like people who are disposed to anger or alcoholism, they are responsible for their own behaviour and capable of conforming it to the law of God and of nature

      • I’m creeping

        There has been plenty of science done to determine the root of homosexuality, and the science has shown that the predisposition is strong and that the environmental effects are things outside of a person’s control, like prenatal environment or how they were raised. This applies to all sexual orientations. By the time a person would be mature enough to decide their sexual orientation – IF it were a choice – it has been set in stone by nature and nurture. It’s not something you can just change or avoid.

        • E. Murray

          What I said still stands, the science is not conclusive but speculative and political. Yes it is something you can change or avoid. Human beings can control all the impulses of nature. Homosexuals who repent of their sins live straight or celibate lives happily.

      • Zach Weems

        I’m confused. You correctly point out when speculation is labeled science, yet turn around and state that:
        “The fact is that most homosexuals are made by childhood sexual abuse or initiation in adulthood. People choose to be homosexual because it is considered cool and because they are attracted to the gay lifestyle and comraderie.”
        This seems highly speculative to me. Or is there solid research to back this argument?

      • Zach Weems

        I’m confused. You correctly point out when speculation is labeled science, yet turn around and state that:
        “The fact is that most homosexuals are made by childhood sexual abuse or initiation in adulthood. People choose to be homosexual because it is considered cool and because they are attracted to the gay lifestyle and comraderie.”
        This seems highly speculative to me. Or is there solid research to back this argument?

    • WhatDaHeck

      your proof just went poof. “Page Not Found”

      If what you say is true, identical twins would BOTH be one or the other.

      • I’m creeping

        My reply to my comment has a fixed link. Identical twins share >50% similarity in sexual orientation. Additionally, factors like exposure to certain hormones and chemicals in utero are environmental factors that contribute to sexuality – and you have no control over those. The family you were brought up in affects your sexuality, and you have no control over that either. Most people realize their sexual orientation fairly young in life, far before they could make a rational “decision” about which orientation they “choose for themselves”.

    • Stephen J

      Note my comment above? I have had gay attraction. I can control it. Gay people aren’t helpless toward their tendencies. I have gay attraction. That doesn’t mean that it’s right. That means it needs to be controlled.

  • KMoore

    This is awful that they show their opinion of “same-sex” marriage with anger and hatred! How is that “tolerant”?? Pray for them!! They could argue their point with discussion and dialog, but they’re the haters!

    • Show me

      Show me exactly where the anger and the hatred is in this article.

  • Go away, stop being homophobic

    How did this article get raided with old people?!?!

    • elcer

      Do you have a problem listening to people who are older? Or do you know everything and not need to learn from the experience of others.

    • I know how Lot felt

      Ahhh…the tolerance of the ‘open minded’….

      • iprazhm

        Exactly I know how Lot felt,,,
        Some people are so ‘open minded’ that their brains fall out.

    • Actual_ND_Student

      TFP linked to it on their website.

  • Wake Up

    Those students offended by the defense of marriage don’t realize that the only rational foundation for human rights is the recognition that we’re created in the image of God and called to eternal life with Him. Supporting others in sinful activities to which God has clearly said no thus cannot be seen as an act of love or defense of rights. The freshmen and sophomores listed in the article would do well to spend more time in good theology and philosophy classes (if these are available at ND) and less time drinking in the lies of popular culture.

  • elcer

    Did you take a poll of the people who claim to be against gay marriage to find out that they are doing those things? If they are doing such things, they are equally sinful, Whatever helps you sleep. Anyone who uses artificial contraception is equally as guilty as homosexuals.

  • OldmanRick

    ND, you are alleged to be a Catholic college. Act like one or drop the word, “Catholic”.

    • ND1990

      I am one. Lifelong. Graduate of Catholic schools including ND, and practicing Catholic. Sorry if the Church’s catechism and the Word of God don’t seem to agree with your definition of a Catholic.

      • OldmanRick

        I didn’t attend ND, but I am Catholic.

    • ND1990

      OldmanRick, sorry I misunderstood your comment. Please disregard my previous response.

  • Aron Sasportas

    The phrase “God’s marriage” brings to mind something Susan B. Anthony once said:

    “The religious persecution of the ages has been done under what was claimed to be the command of God. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their own desires.”

    • ND1990

      I’m not sure how the expression of God’s will is religious persecution. I did not see that TFP was advocating that anyone be persecuted.

  • ND1990

    As an alumnae of the University, I am always saddened to hear the University make the news for the wrong reasons (and not because it has a National Championship Football Team). I am even more saddened when well-intentioned Catholics and other Christians seems so confused about what side of this issue they should be on. If you are confused about what Jesus would say or do, then please consult the Catechism or consult your Bible. Jesus loved and forgave sinners (that is, all of us) but he also called us all to repentance, “Go and sin no more,” (John 8:11, Luke 7:50). Moreover, Jesus calls us to help others discern sin and chastises us if we lead people astray, “Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come,” (Luke 17:1). “Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to the do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven,” (Matthew 5:19)”. It seems that from their sign, these men from TFP were answering this call, and they were reminding all of us to remember God’s Word and His will for our lives, despite modern convention, popular opinion, or secular law. If you do not believe in God’s Word, or the teachings of the Church, then I am not sure why the expression of it is offensive to you. If you do believe in God’s Word, then again, pray and read your Bible, and support those who have the courage to profess God’s Word. It also is disheartening and ironic that the same campus police who took 17 days to interview an alleged rapist, took just a few minutes to enforce campus policy on TFP, and rather than allowing the group to take whatever steps were necessary to rectify their paperwork shortcomings, instead asked them to leave campus.

  • iprazhm

    These young men are truely inspiring. I found the student who stated that humans are animals and that we all came from apes, most particularly disturbing.

    The damage teaching the lie of the theory of evolution has far reaching consequences.

    We feel guilt and remorse, unlike animals, for a reason. God gave humans a brain and spirit like no other of His creations, so we could choose to act on instinct like animals or use our human ability to reason and weigh consequences. We are not animals, but we can choose to behave like them.

    • No

      The theory of evolution is fact. There is more evidence for evolution than there is for gravity. It is supported by the Catholic Church. Don’t mix theological reflection on human nature into the scientific study of the basis of all of biology.

      • iprazhm

        You do realize you just contradicted yourself?

        Theory – noun ˈthē-ə-rē, ˈthir-ē

        : an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events

        : an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true

        : the general principles or ideas that relate to a particular subject

        : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation

        : an unproved assumption : conjecturec : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject

        The THEORY of Evolution is not fact. It never was. Theorys are not factual, they are ‘guess’es. They are unproven ideas. Go back to Elementary School and STUDY this time.

        • No

          Are you just a troll?

          A theory in science is something that is supported time and time again by an overwhelming amount of evidence. We can’t 100% prove it, but we’re 99.99999999% there (and nothing can be 100% proven in science anyway). It is NOT the same as the colloquial definition of a theory. In science, an educated guess is called a hypothesis, not a theory. You go back to school, and pay attention in science class this time around. Evolution makes perfect sense if you put any ounce of thought into it. It does not contradict Christian teaching.

          • iprazhm

            That would be you.

          • No

            God created everything. God’s creation is inherently good. God can is omnipotent and can create anything in whatever way He wants. Why not through evolution? Many people in this comments section are saying that homosexual acts violate God’s natural law. I contend that denying evolution is violating God’s natural law. God made an amazing world full of life for us humans to explore and enjoy and marvel at, and it is disgraceful to Him when people are willfully ignorant and refuse to acknowledge God’s creation and love it for the way that it is and the way it has evolved.

            Evolution is the means by which we have the amazing world we have today. It is inseparable from life and creation. Evolution allows us to understand our world the living things on it to be better stewards of God’s creation. Evolution connects us to all other humans and all other living things, giving us a sense of solidarity but also reminding us of our smallness and mortality. Acknowledging evolution isn’t the source of our world’s problem; willful ignorance is.

      • NDaniels

        While it is true that God said, “Be fruitful and multiply”, and in Time each human life, from the moment of conception, is a continuum, a human person can only conceive a human person. The Catholic Church does not believe that man evolved from apes; from the moment of conception, nothing is added to or subtracted from the DNA of a human individual, thus, from the moment of conception, a son or daughter of a human person can only be a human person. Let no one deceive you, The Catholic Church proclaims The Sanctity of Human Life and The Sanctity of Marriage and The Family, from The Beginning.

        • No

          No no no no no. This is all SO wrong. The Vatican has explicitly stated that they defer to scientists on the matter of the origin of life and the age of the earth. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that proves evolution. Who says God can’t bring about life through evolution? He can create things however He wants. The Church mandates that the evolution of humans occurred through the hand of God.

          Plenty of things are added to or subtracted from the DNA of a human individual every time a human is conceived. This is what brings about the great diversity in humans. It’s what gives us all different appearances and personalities and interests and the like. Does that not make us uniquely made in God’s image?

          • NDaniels

            http://liveactionnews.org/life-begins-at-conception-science-teaches/

            No, you are mistaken. You have been you from the moment of your conception, and I have been me from the moment of my conception; even if in Time and Space we shall not meet, or even if we do, the fact is, a human person can only conceive a human person.

          • No

            It looks like we’re not on the same page here. In biology, a species is a population of individuals that can successfully interbreed. Humans across the globe can procreate with one another, and thus they constitute on species. No human could give birth to a non-human; the odds of enough DNA mutations occurring to create a reproductively isolated child are essentially zero, and even if it did happen, that would be one person, not a population, so it wouldn’t be a part of a new species. So yes, I agree with you that humans can only conceive humans.

            However, this does not mean that evolution does not occur in humans. For example, humans that migrated to northern Europe evolved lighter skin so they are better able to absorb the limited amount sun rays and make enough Vitamin D. They aren’t non-humans, but evolution still brought about their physical traits.

          • Ryan Masog

            Yes evolution can occur in humans, but humans could not have evolved from single celled organisms or apes for that matter.

          • Ryan Masog

            Evolution probably exists. but this is micro-evolution, that is the
            changing of cells due to their environment. Macro-evolution on the other
            hand, is unproven, as there is no half-human half-ape. Either it is an
            ape or it is a human. “Lucy” for example is an ape with a human knee
            that was found three miles away from the rest of her skeleton. Nobody
            honestly believes that her knee somehow traveled three miles after she
            died.

            If you want science that God exists then look to biology.
            ATP is necessary for all cells to exist. This means bacteria, plants,
            animals, etc. all without exception. The problem with the
            macro-evolution hypothesis is that it claims that we evolved from a
            single celled organism. Single celled organisms make ATP in a completely
            different way than humans. ATP is a cycle of chemical reactions and you
            cannot remove any one part of the cycle, or the cycle will cease. Once
            the cycle ceases, the supply of ATP diminishes and the cell dies. So
            that means that if single celled organisms create ATP differently than
            humans, and the ATP cycle cannot change or evolve or the cell will die,
            they must each have been created spontaneously by a supreme being.

          • No

            NO. Micro and macroevolution are different manifestations of the same thing. Chemicals, radiation, or random errors cause changes in a cell’s DNA. These changes may alter a gene in the DNA. This may cause differences in the proteins encoded by that gene, whether it is different amounts produced, different structure, different chemical activity, different shape, etc. If that mutation hurts the cell, it will not reproduce as much as other cells, and that mutated cell line will die out. If it helps the cell, the mutated cell will reproduce more than other cells, so over time there will be many more cells with that mutation than without.

            If one cell gets mutated in an adult body, nothing will really happen. If an egg or sperm carries a genetic mutation, the child that results from that will have the same DNA mutation in every single cell in the body. This may cause a difference in the person on the large scale; i.e. different eye color. These physical appearances of genetic mutations are called phenotypes. Whichever phenotype makes an organism reproduce the most is the most “genetically fit”. Let’s say you have a species of butterfly that can either have a black body or white body, two different phenotypes. If it lives in a forest with white trees, the white butterflies can land on the tree and camouflage themselves to hide from predators, while the black ones get noticed easily and get eaten. The white butterflies live longer than the black ones, so they produce more offspring over a lifetime. Each successive generation has more and more white butterflies. If the trees suddenly became black due to pollution from soot, the black butterflies would be able to hide better, live longer, and have more offspring than white ones and nature would “select for” the black butterflies. This happened in real life; see “Peppered moth evolution” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution)

            Humans didn’t evolve from apes. They shared a common ancestor. There was a population of this “ancestral primate” that got split up by geography, behavior differences, etc. Over time, each separated population evolved differently into different organisms. There is no ape-human hybrid; however, there were species that were descendants of the “ancestral primate” and ancestors of humans. Each generation was slightly different than the one before it, and over time the population of individuals changed from “ancestral primate” to “human” by passing through many different species throughout the generations along the way.

            Also, the ATP argument is 100% wrong. Single celled organisms make ATP in a way very similar to humans and every other species. There are slight differences in the structure of the enzymes in the ATP synthesis pathways, but the pathway is very similar. This is actually evidence in favor of evolution: since ATP synthesis is necessary for life, there should be few mutations across species in the genes for ATP synthesizing enzymes. DNA analysis has found this to be true. Different species may have mutliple ATP synthesis pathways (i.e. plants can make ATP from light energy, some deep-sea bacteria can make it through heat energy), but everything can make ATP by converting glucose to pyruvate through a highly conserved pathway.

            PLEASE read up on evolution. Not believing is evolution is willful ignorance. There is an overwhelming (we’re talking millions of scientific papers and experiments) amount of evidence in support of evolution.

  • scragsma

    I don’t know about illegal, but it is sinful.

  • faustinaagatha

    I would like the Church to teach the full truth of God’s purpose for sexuality.

    • Dovestar

      According to whose point of view?

  • EternalBlueFlame

    Notre Dame has long since lost its catholic roots.. when you hear Notre Dame you think of football and not of a Catholic University… truly a shame.

  • Gerardo Fernando

    Keep what should be in the bedroom where it belongs. If you make it legal, does it mean that because it si legal it can be done anywhere, anytime, with anyone? One can do it in the bedroom even if it is legal or not.One’s concscience will dictate what to do.

    • Zach Weems

      No, legality simply connotes that it may be done in private, with a consenting adult. In the recent past in some states, and in the present in certain countries, people were/are arrested for what they did in private. “nah” is asking if people here would have the US return to this.

      • Gerardo Fernando

        Different countries have different laws and morality. One can not dictate what is being practise in the U. S. of A to be accepted in Saudi Arabia. Irregardless. Please cite your source where consenting adults were arested for what they did in private in the US of A.

        • Zach Weems

          I suppose that the best source for this is the Supreme Court case in which state “sodomy laws” were rendered unenforceable. Here is the Wikipedia article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas
          And I did not say anything about the extent to which the US ought to fight for changes to laws in Saudi Arabia or any other nation.

          • Gerardo Fernando

            You mentioned: In the recent past in some states, and in the present in certain COUNTRIES, people were/are arrested for what they did in private.

          • Zach Weems

            I’m not sure what you are asking. Do you want sources to show that other nations arrest gays for private, consensual acts? Or are you trying to show the presence of a foreign policy recommendation in my first response? Please specify.

  • Pfrancis

    I am a single mother of three. I work very hard to give my children the best of everything. That starts with Gods natural moral law. Without that one is always lost and searching for truth, and has a pit inside that will never be filled. Ask yourselves, why all the anger and hate, why the depression and rage that follows disorder. There are people longing for true love- that is quite the truth! The only true love comes from the One above. I think it is pretty clear when truth speaks, we should listen. The author of love wants nothing more than our uniting with Him, yet He has rules. Yes we should, as Catholics look up those verses in the bible that state: you should not judge…… Until you take the plank out of your own eye, and then share the truth with LOVE. True love comes in letting your neighbor know how offensive their actions are to our good God! If we call ourselves Catholic/Christian, and the Jewish faith as well recognize, God made Adam, and his helper/companion/wife Eve, and that is just the beginning. If you’d like to learn more about the faith of our fathers, handed down for more than 2000 years, I invite you to look deeper into your Catholic faith. Through dogma, doctrine, scripture, and so many beautiful miracles, our beautiful faith is a beautiful living, breathing avenue to Gods great truths! Live, let live, help others, and speak, and act on Gods Truth! I say God bless the TFP!!

  • Jeepers

    I guess the sign, “Equal rights for all people” doesn’t apply to those who haven’t redefined marriage.

    • Oh please

      If a homosexual couple is denied the legal right to marriage, they are denied a plethora of legal rights and recognition that come with it. What rights of yours are violated if someone gets a “marriage” that isn’t recognized by your religion? If you don’t like gay marriage then don’t get gay married. You have nothing to complain about.

  • Dinahcat

    PS if these people want to change Catholic teaching then they should go start their own church,without God. they can put themselves at the center of their church and worship trees or something of that nature

  • Lon Kramer

    Its a sad state of affairs when a well-recognized Catholic University does not allow/protect any group that specifically promotes basic Catholic principles. It just goes to show that many universities currently have lost track of basic moral guideposts. I pray the University sees a need to return to appropriate moral and ethical values. God would expect no less.

  • rosech

    Unfortunately our so-called Catholic colleges left Catholicism a long time ago and have become secular. I recommend friends NOT to send their young adults to any Catholic college for this reason, but rather to Hillsdale College! See the same thing happening in our churches so that I don’t feel welcome nor Catholic at a Mass. Only feel comfortable attending Mass in China! Go figure. Our faith is being tested and in the meantime our churches are emptying because they are no longer truly “Catholic”, our bishops are liberals pushing agendas we do NOT want, such as amnesty for illegals who have invaded our American soil and that is an Act of War ! Lived in Mexico for years and there are jobs just no freebies. So, where do we who are real Catholics go to Mass or attend supposed Catholic colleges. A conundrum to which at present I do not have an answer but it grieves me to attend Mass and the church maybe 1/2 to 2/3s full and have to suffer through lousy uninspiring music, clapping for every little thing, lack of reverence and adoration of our God and Jesus. It makes me cry.

    • Wake Up

      You condemn too broadly. The Cardinal Newman Society promotes those colleges that are truly Catholic. And a real Catholic goes to any Catholic church for Mass, knowing that it is about the worship of God, regardless of whether the homily or the singing are to his or her personal liking.

  • Connor

    When Barack Obama, the most pro-abortion president ever in the history of the United States, was given an honorary degree by Notre Dame, I lost all respect for Notre Dame.

    • Oh please

      1. That was FIVE years ago. Let it go.
      1a. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

      2. Besides abortion/euthanasia and subsidiarity, the democratic party is more in line with Catholic Social Tradition than the Republican party on every other tenet. Dignity and rights of workers? Option for the poor and vulnerable? Environmental stewardship? Democrats support abortion which kills innocent people, but Republicans supported a war in Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. No politician is going to be 100% in line with Catholic teaching, so support the one who supports more Catholic teachings. Stop nitpicking over just one teaching.

      3. It should be noted that democrats want abortion to be a rare but safe event. If someone chooses abortion, it should at least be safe for the mother, however sinful you think it is. Someone who gets an abortion needs help and support to come back to God, not punishment by death from a botched abortion. They support the notion that people should be able to prevent unplanned pregnancies from happening using birth control and comprehensive sex education (which, unlike abstinence-only education, have been quantitatively proven to improve socioeconomic conditions and reduce the numbers of both unwanted pregnancies and abortions), and adequate maternal care and maternal leave should convince mothers that they are capable of keeping the baby. Say whatever you want about natural law; preventing a pregnancy is a whole lot less sinful than terminating one.

      • Connor1

        “Oh please,” your reply was contradictory, confusing, illogical and 100%
        wrong. Everything you wrote was in error and made no sense. If you are
        Catholic, you must be a cafeteria Catholic who picks and chooses what
        she likes and rejects what she doesn’t like. As Saint Augustine wrote,
        “If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you don’t
        like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.” Everything you
        wrote is wrong and non-Catholic. Since you brought up the political
        parties, of course the Republican Party is more in line with Catholicism
        since it is the more Pro-Life party. If the baby is murdered before it
        has a chance even to be born, who is more innocent, vulnerable, poor?
        Who is more oppressed and deserving of civil rights? Who has more need
        of social Justice??? As you stated: “Democrats support abortion which
        kills innocent people…” I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  • Donald Ross

    When will Notre Dame stop calling itself Catholic or begin teaching authentic Catholic Doctrine. Let us pray for that day

  • Joe Rayles

    How sad that students at a Catholic university don’t know or understand the teachings of the Catholic Church. The students should have been the ones asked to leave, not TFP.

  • ICantBelieveYou

    You’re absolutely insane. Who are you to judge?

    • Maggie Sullivan

      WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      You just wrote, “You’re absolutely insane. Who are you to judge?”

      You just made a vicious judgment then complained someone else is judging.

      This is hilarious……isn’t this the exact definition of insanity

      Thank you for making my day!

      And by the way. ND is not Catholic, they are modernist warm-fuzzy-feel good-do-what-you-want.

  • Zach Weems

    Please present evidence to back up this statement regarding scientific fact.

  • Jessie

    Sexuality is not merely about sexual intercourse. Rather, sexuality is about how we view/interpret/use (or don’t use) our physical bodies to express self-giving love. While the Catholic church teaches that homosexual action is immoral, it does not teach that identifying as homosexual is immoral. It also does not teach that homosexuality is a “movement” or a “culture” that is constructed. The Church calls for compassion and love toward all people, despite gender, sexual orientation, age, whatever. Instead of condemning our homosexual brothers and sisters, we ought to embrace them and acknowledge that we all face struggles with sexuality and living the call to chastity. As is often the case, the Church teaching of chastity is also often misunderstood. Chastity is not the same as abstinence from sexual intercourse, but rather is the call for all people to honor their sexuality and the sexuality of others. While a heterosexual married couple can engage in sexual intercourse and be chaste, anyone who is not married (whether homosexual or heterosexual or anything else) cannot engage in sexual intercourse and remain chaste. I am not taking a stance either way on this situation on campus, as I was not present and do not know enough about it, but I do ask that all of us actually understand the Church teaching that we use as defense for our positions. Using faulty interpretations of Church teaching only hurts us as a community.

    On a side note, Notre Dame is open to the promotion of the sanctity of marriage. However, there is a difference between productive dialogue and an exchange of one-liners and bully tactics. Please do not make assumptions about our institution and the students here without action meeting us and attempting to engage in dialogue.

    • NDaniels

      The Catholic Church does not teach that God ordered us to live our lives in Loving relationship as objects of sexual desire/orientation in direct violation of God’s Commandment regarding lust and the sin of adultery; our call to Holiness is a call to overcome our disordered inclinations and become transformed through Salvational Love, God’s Gift of Grace and Mercy. The Sacrifice of The Cross Is The Sacrifice of The Most Holy, “for God so Loved us, that He sent His only Son…”

      While we all have disordered inclinations of various type and degree, some more difficult to overcome than others, it is a sin to not desire to overcome our disordered inclinations through God’s Gift of Grace and Mercy.

  • ironicAgno

    Pray for Notre Dame? Pray for yourselves. Pray that you learn how to love and accept someone who disagrees with you; pray to always have an open mind and open heart; pray to not judge someone’s reactions or feelings as “pathetic”.

    Pray for families; families who have fathers and mothers that sexually abuse children, families who have fathers and mothers that abuse each other, families that have children who have no one to turn to even though they have a mother and father.

  • I’mDisappointedInYouScragsma

    The nicest version of Church teaching on gay people that I’ve heard is something like what you’ve said, that the Church loves and accepts everyone, even the murderers, thieves and the gays. Even the “intrinsically disordered gays.” I’ll take issue with each part of that statement, first the comparison you drew and then the other phrase I’ve often heard used. First, to even correlate murderers and thieves to gay people is absurd, because of the nature of the act they each commit. Murderers and thieves commit acts that are actively detrimental to society at the moment they commit them, because their acts hurt someone. Murderers KILL people, thieves STEAL from people, what do gays do? I would say they LOVE people, that just happen to have the same genitalia as them.

    But maybe you’re one of the crazies who thinks there’s a “gay agenda,” who knows. Or maybe you’re one of the people who thinks that gay marriage hurts children, or that gay marriage weakens the traditional institution of marriage. For the first one, it seems like we’re still at the stage where the evidence you believe depends on what you think to start with, so I guess we’ll just have to see how scholarship on the children of gay couples as compared to the children of straight couples develops. Personally, I think children above all need two parents who love each other and the child, creating a stable family unit that helps everyone be all that they can be. But that’s just me.

    Regardless, this comparison between gays and thieves/murderers is ridiculous. There are other reasons that you can present to not be for gay marriage, but don’t use this comparison again. It doesn’t work. Make a good argument and I’ll respect that you at least used logic and reason to develop your point.

  • rich

    Thank you John for all you do!!! I give you a lot of credit arguing with these clowns from academia. Maybe they need to see God’s not dead or Heaven is for real….God help them!!!

  • Gloria Alatorre

    Sodomy, perverse sexual acts are moral according to you? Give me a brake!

    • Tommy_Butler

      No, no. Sodomy is not moral, the term is morally serious, i.e. it conveys the moral significance of the act more clearly than do certain other expressions, such as vulgar slang or bloodless medical terminology.
      I intended to say that the term sodomy is not “offensive and cruel” as Jeff indicated, but rather is the only suitable term in our language for the unnatural use of our sexuality.

      • Gloria Alatorre

        Thank you for the clarification. An explanation in the proper tone and with the proper words, will most of the time, make things clearer and end an argument in a civilized manner. Again, thank you!

  • FriendlyNeighborhoodSpiderman

    It also says this: “A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin she shall be executed.”

  • FriendlyNeighborhoodSpiderman

    Believe what you will but trying to make laws based on your religious beliefs is completely wrong. Haven’t you heard of separation of church and state? The US is a DEMOCRACY, not a theocracy. But I guess you guys didn’t learn that in bible school.

    • Poptoy1949

      Actually the United States is a Republic. It has never been a Democracy. This is fact. I do not say this to argue or be rude but simply to state fact.

  • James R

    I tune out and label as “Ludicrous” any argument that purports to support any position which resorts to the use of; anger, extortion, use of force, intimidation, non-verifiable empirical data, lies, appeals to emotion, denial of logic, “straw-men”, or subjectivism to make it’s case. If one has to do that…THEY HAVE NO CASE or SUPPORT…PERIOD!!

  • Mr. Brian Batty, O.P.

    It’s long overdue time that Notre Dame receives a cease and desist order to call or associate themselves with any reference to “Catholic.”

  • origen

    homosexuals preach tolerance but hypocritically dont give it. They fabricate “hate” where there is none.

  • origen

    Support for traditional marriage is not about “hatred”, its about recognizing that marriage was made for children to have a right to their mother and father

  • origen

    the forgotten victims of so called gay “marriage” are the children

    • Pick your battle.

      Did you ever think that if gay couples could adopt babies, there’d be more loving homes available for unplanned children and fewer women would get abortions?

  • Slippery Slope

    What? JAMA is one of the most prestigious medical journals in the country. Of course it’s been rigorously peer-reviewed. You’re just grasping at straws.

    I’ll say it again: fertility is not a defense of heterosexual marriage. Plenty of heterosexual couples are infertile. Any couple older than 55 is basically infertile. If you’re going to ban homosexual marriage on the basis of not being able to have kids, then heterosexual couples should be screened for fertility before they can get a marriage license and old people should be forced to divorce.

  • Ronald J.Lorenzo Jr.

    It’s a very sad commentary from a catholic university! God help us!

  • Leaps and bounds in reasoning

    Errr, what? ND still supports Catholic teaching on marriage. The students interviewed don’t necessarily reflect the administration’s stance and vision. Telling a group to leave because they’re violating camera policies isn’t “rejecting Catholic teaching.”

  • Cypressclimber

    It’s some combination of laughable and sad that three slight young men can set up a table, with literature, and a sign, and students — delicate flowers that they are — get the vapors.

    No doubt they’d have thrown holy water on the intruders…if they believed in that sort of thing.

  • NatanElias

    God said it is wicked. Wishful thinking by humans changes nothing.

    • IE

      If that’s the only reason that you can give for actually judging them, then you are not going to convince me anytime soon.

  • AL

    I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA. LINDSTROM & COMPANY ARE REDEFINING STUPIDITY.

  • Fr John Trigilio, Jr

    I was very discouraged to read online that the University of Notre Dame recently forbad a student group on campus to promote traditional marriage. I hope this was simply an isolated case of an imprudent decision since Notre Dame is supposed to be a Catholic university which Ex Corde Ecclesiae requires conforms to Magisterial teaching. It ironically seems that academic freedom is also in jeopardy since the traditional moral argument seems to be suppressed in favor of the politically correct agenda. Why not allow the opposing view to stand on its on veracity and merit rather than unjustly silence it?

    • NDaniels

      There is nothing that is academic about error; only The Truth of Love can set us free. The question is, why not proclaim Christ’s teaching on The Sanctity of Human Life, and The Sanctity of Marriage and The Family from The Beginning least we deny Christ from the start?

  • Anajen

    And this is what is happening to Catholics now. I pulled my daughter out of her “Catholic” school due to the sad state of the teachers and the Catholic Seperate School Board. Anyone can go there now, Catholic or Athiest. As long as the enrolment is up-the government now funds this education with bribery. We are happier home educating her now. At least she will grow up with MORALS and VALUES. It’s all a sell out. Welcome to the New World Order.

  • Parque_Hundido

    The TFP are basically the KKK in schoolboy outfits. It’s a disgrace just to have them on campus. Good riddance.

    • William P Murphy

      Parque: you are a moron: the TFP is doing God’s work.

      • Parque_Hundido

        Everyone knows that the TFP are a protofascist group. They are the KKK in school boy outfits. You can call me names all you like, but they are Satan’s minions. That’s just a fact. Sorry.

        • William P Murphy

          So you consider Christians to be protofascist: you seem to be extremely ignorant of fascism and Christianity. Fascists hated Christianity.
          Read the Catechism: 2357, 2358, 2359 and 2396: the teachings of the Catholic Church. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.

          • Parque_Hundido

            These are not christians, They are Satan’s minions. That’s a fact. You seem to be unaware of the sordid history of this group in Latin America and Spain. You should focus more on history than on your weird catechisms. I have no interest in reading them, not even if I got stoned first. B-0-R-I-N-G. You have a right to your little beliefs, noxious as they are, but you don’t have any right to presume that anyone else will take an interest in them.

          • William P Murphy

            I did not menetion ‘weird catechims’, I mentioned the Catechisms of the Catholic Church which would be appropriate if Notre Dame is a Catholic College.
            Parque: your hatred and ignorance of Catholic teachngs makes you look like the fascist.

          • Parque_Hundido

            The only hatred I see is spewing from your dark, homophobic heart. You should seek help.

          • William P Murphy

            The help I need, I will start with prayer and Catechism 2357, 2358 and 2359.
            That explains how Catholics should view homosexuals and how anyone with homosexual desires should refrain from any acts.
            Nothing hateful or homophobic or ignorant about knowing the Catechism.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Poor thing. Good luck with your Catechisms. And in getting in touch with your hateful ideas. Perhaps speaking to a shrink rather than to a priest might help.

          • William P Murphy

            Not my Catechisms: the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
            Parque: you seem mentally unbalanced and illogical.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Odd that you put so much trust in the teachings of a “church” that enslaved and victimized so many. Typical of the hateful bigot population. So much cognitive dissonance, so little logic, so much superstition. Good luck with that.

          • William P Murphy

            Odd that you keep ignoring the teachings of the Catholic Church while commenting on an incident on a Catholic College.
            Maybe you could join the Klan or NAZIs or Communists (if you have nor already) and outlaw Catholicism?

          • Parque_Hundido

            I’m not ignoring them, I’m disregarding them. Those of us who went to good universities understand that an open mind is not the same thing as an empty mind. I have no desire to join you in the Klan or the NAZIs. Please seek help for your bigotry.

          • William P Murphy

            If you talking about Catholic Organizations and disregarding the Catechism, your mind is so open that breeze is blowing through it.
            See about getting you mental illness treated.
            The Klan and NAZIs were anti Catholic: I am supporting the teachings of the Catholic Church while you are opposing the teachings of the Catholic: think who is more in line the Klan and NAZIs?

          • Parque_Hundido

            Hitler was a Catholic and enjoyed the full support of the Vatican. While the KKK are not Catholic, your “church” came up with the Knights of Columbus in response to the KKK. Today, they are among our country’s leading anti-gay hate groups and a source of national shame. Sorry, your “church” is a leader in bigotry, persecution and ignorance. I’m sure you’re proud.

          • William P Murphy

            More ignorance from you. Pius worked to stop the war and to stop the Holocaust, Hitler was raised Catholic but did not attend church as an adult. Pope John 23 is considered as a Righteous amoung the Nations.
            The Knights were formed as a mutual protection society for poor Catholics and were formed in 1872. When the Knights were founded the KKK was dormant. It revived in later with Satan’s help, much like Satan is using homosexuality in another attempt to destroy Christianity.
            The Knights a hate group? It seems your definition of hate is perverted as your definition of marriage.

          • Parque_Hundido

            I’m sorry to hear you’ve confused your cult indoctrination with actual education. Perhaps you should have gone to a university, then you’d know the truth about the Vatican persecuting Jews and supporting Hitler. Seems everyone but you knows the truth about the KoK, America’s largest hate group. Sorry.

          • William P Murphy

            So the Jewish people are in on the conspiracy to make Pius, John, John Paul II and many others look like they tried to help the Jews against the NAZIs?
            KoK? You referred to the Knights of Columbus which is the KofC is that what you mean?
            Your make many misstatements: why would your comments have any creditability?

          • Parque_Hundido

            The “conspiracy” is inside your head, where the rest of your hateful, bigoted ideas reside. I believe you’re the only one who alleges that the Vatican attempted to assist Jews in WWII. Sorry, you just come across as an unglued nutball conspiracy theorist.

          • William P Murphy

            ‘weird catechisms’ are the teachings of the Catholic Church and if Notre Dame is Catholic, those teachings should be the teachings of Notre Dame.
            You seem to be very ignorant.

  • Patrick Cullen

    Notre Dame is not a Catholic college. It hasn’t been for a long time.

  • disqus_JMJ

    If you really want to go down this road…
    Take religion out for one minute. Mmmmm, you can’t. Not possible.
    Alternately the “harm” being caused is to a) the perpetuation of the human race, and b) to children.

    Man on man relations do not create children. Same for woman on woman. Pretty simple. Nothing good comes out of a lifestyle that promotes and endorses that behavour.
    Children are being confused and misled with the idea that their sexual identity is their one and only identity and that it is right and propoer for them to question if they are attarcted sexually to someone of the same sex.
    I hope I am not making you feel bad. Truly.

  • NDaniels

    Why not invite them to come to Our Lady’s University so they can share The Good News regarding God’s intention for The Sanctity of Marriage and The Family, which is to serve the Good of the husband, the Good of the wife, and the Good of the new Family that is created when a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, creating a new family?

  • NDaniels

    NDaniels • a minute ago
    There is nothing that is academic about error; only The Truth of Love can set us free. The question is, why not proclaim Christ’s teaching on The Sanctity of Human Life, and The Sanctity of Marriage and The Family from The Beginning least we deny Christ from the start?
    The Truth of Love Is not a matter of opinion, He Is The Christ.

  • EFTROM

    I’m wondering why this article left out the information about the leftist students coming to the TFP group and ripping up their fliers and yelling.

    • Parque_Hundido

      Maybe because it only happened in your head.

  • Parque_Hundido

    If by “American” you man Canadian, US, Mexican, Costa Rican, Colombian, Brazilian, Uruguayan and Argentine, then yes, “only” American Catholics are supportive of LGBT equality. These are all the places with marriage equality and legal protections for LGBT people (except for the US, which lags the other countries). Seems like someone lives in a rather provincial bubble.

  • MichiganRon

    One more thing I should add… I’m not so sure Christians should be so upset about gay ‘marriage’. What we’re talking about here are civil unions performed by the government, not marriage in a church. Look in the bible — Jesus says ‘Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and render unto God what is God’s.’ That kinda sounds like the 2000 year-old version of saying “Whatever”. Now if the CHURCH decides to start performing gay marriages, THEN you have a complaint.
    But we’re also supposed to point out if we believe another person is sinning. I don’t know what to make of it. That’s why in the beginning of my statement I said “I’m not so sure”. I’m still trying to figure it out myself.

  • GO’MH

    ” It was just so great to see that other Notre Dame students are willing [to dissent from Catholic Church teaching] with me.”
    “He was concerned about the prospective student groups
    in the area and wanted to demonstrate to them and to the TFP group that not all
    students on campus [believe what the Church teaches].
    He wanted to show the protestors that not all students at a Catholic university [even the ones who might claim to be, are actually, you know…. Catholic.]

    ‘Zat about right?

  • NDaniels

    Let’s be honest, this was a group of persons supporting God’s intention for Marriage and The Family, not a group that was trespassing against Our Lady’s University.

  • NDaniels

    The debate is between those who claim that we have been ordered to live our lives in relationship as objects of sexual desire/orientation, and those who recognize that we have been ordered to live our lives in loving relationship in communion with God, as sons,daughters, brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers; although we are called to love one another, we do not love a son or daughter the same way we love our husband or our wife. Love is ordered to the personal and relational inherent Dignity of the human person.

  • PatAl

    The Message of Jesus is LOVE! Hate may be disguised in numerous way and various methods. However, freedom is the finest of all sacred aspects. Thus, if one does *not* want same-sex marriage, then one should not have one. Yet, those who do, need to be left alone with their joy and love. In other words, we should all pray to The Lord for our own salvation and not urge for discrimination on any level!

  • NDaniels

    The profound falsehood of this theory and of the anthropological revolution contained within it is obvious. People dispute the idea that they have a nature, given by their bodily identity, that serves as a defining element of the human being. They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. According to the biblical creation account, being created by God as male and female pertains to the essence of the human creature. This duality is an essential aspect of what being human is all about, as ordained by God. This very duality as something previously given is what is now disputed. The words of the creation account: “male and female he created them” (Gen 1:27) no longer apply. No, what applies now is this: it was not God who created them male and female – hitherto society did this, now we decide for ourselves. Man and woman as created realities, as the nature of the human being, no longer exist. Man calls his nature into question. From now on he is merely spirit and will. The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man’s fundamental choice where he himself is concerned. From now on there is only the abstract human being, who chooses for himself what his nature is to be. Man and woman in their created state as complementary versions of what it means to be human are disputed. But if there is no pre-ordained duality of man and woman in creation, then neither is the family any longer a reality established by creation. Likewise, the child has lost the place he had occupied hitherto and the dignity pertaining to him. Bernheim shows that now, perforce, from being a subject of rights, the child has become an object to which people have a right and which they have a right to obtain. When the freedom to be creative becomes the freedom to create oneself, then necessarily the Maker himself is denied and ultimately man too is stripped of his dignity as a creature of God, as the image of God at the core of his being. The defence of the family is about man himself. And it becomes clear that when God is denied, human dignity also disappears. Whoever defends God is defending man.” – Our Holy Father, Benedict

  • PatAl

    Furthermore, in terms of The Scriptures, the *only* person that Jesus is mentioned as loving, is John, aka The Beloved Disciple. I actually do believe that , despite official teachings, The Lord WAS MARRIED to Mary Magdalene. However, His Love goes to all and those who use His Name to foster hatred are the ones who really sin to the Nth degree.

    • NDaniels

      All of Christ’s disciples were beloved, John refers to himself as the beloved disciple because he, as one of the twelve, is the author of The Gospel of John.

  • NDaniels

    Let no one deceive you, an inside group is denying that The Word of God Is The Word of God, while a multitude of persons remain sleeping in Gethsemane.

    19:4 Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, made them male and female? And he said:
    19:5 For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.
    19:6 Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.

  • sbmo

    Just for starters: do you remember what the name of this university means– NOTRE DAME: Our Lady:Mary, the Mother of God. An apt name for a CATHOLIC university. It is sad indeed, when the most basic doctrines of our faith, and beyond it even of natural law, are questioned, attacked, and its opposite upheld in the name of so called diversity. It would be wise to uphold and honor that most honorable name, otherwise, change it. Otherwise, do everything legally necessary for the university not to be accepted in any way by the Catholic Church or by outsiders, as Catholic anymore.

  • Paul

    Marriage is essential to a properly functioning society and the nurturing of children who thrive best with their natural mother and father. Redefining marriage further weakens this vital role as children are deprived of this necessary link.

  • H

    Notre Dame is not just a school for students who believe in Catholic teaching. I could care less about the Catholic faith and your God, but this is still MY university just as much as the next student.

    • Ponyrunner

      It was founded by Catholics, run by Catholics and supposedly from their blurb on the school; Notre Dame’s Catholic character is reflected in its explicit commitment to the Catholic faith, numerous ministries funded by the school, and the architecture around campus.
      It is unfortunate that there are students that got into ND that don’t care a whit about the Catholic faith. Because there are many waiting in line that do care.

  • Malia

    God forgive NDU for its ANTI-CATHOLIC views on the SACRAMENT of Marriage! If NDU isn’t teaching the faith of our fathers, then I call upon Catholics everywhere to turn their backs on both verbal & monetary support for this affront to JESUS CHRIST, OUR LORD AND SAVIOR! PRAY for NDU, but do NOT support NDU until it goes back to its roots, i.e. EDUCATING YOUTH in the principles of the bible and our LORD JESUS CHRIST! PC is ANTI-CHRIST!

  • William Fleck

    In light of his various decisions and (in) actions, I make a motion that your President petition Rome for a return to lay status’
    William Fleck

  • Poptoy1949

    AS a Roman Catholic I am in disbelief that this can go on at the Flag Ship Catholic University in the United States. Then I think back to 2009 when Notre Dame invited onama to speak and …..well, nothing has changed. I think it is past time for the Vatican to become involved in this fiasco of leadership at Notre Dame.

    • guest

      That’s President Obama, not onama

      • Poptoy1949

        No, That was not a Typo.

  • John Ritchie
  • Marge

    here take a read on this, you probably won’t like it since it’s from your own kind’s perspective. Even he knows it’s wrong, he has some sense. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/im-gay-and-i-oppose-gay-marriage

  • Rusty Reiter

    The name “Tradition, Family Property” is very fitting since women and children were the property of the man during the biblical eras and the Holy Roman Empire.

  • Rusty Reiter

    It is interesting for us to remember that Jesus constantly warned us against religious conservatives who pointed the finger at others and used the scriptures in a legalistic way. Conversely, Christ never spoke a single word against gays. How did this TFP group get it backwards?