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Students join conversation about Indiana gay marriage ruling

| Monday, September 29, 2014

The Supreme Court convened privately Monday to determine whether it will hear a case appealing the Sept. 4 decision by the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that Indiana’s ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional.

The Justices are considering seven cases from five different states, including Indiana, and can choose to hear all, none or some of the appeals. They could announce their decision as early as this week, but Notre Dame students on both sides of the aisle say the campus response to the appeal has been limited and languid.

“I think it’s a hard thing for people to talk about, which I understand, but I think we as a community need to, despite your religious background or your beliefs on the issues, we need to talk about them more in an open space so it’s not just a thing we talk about only behind closed doors,” freshman Jake Maginn, a member of PrismND, said.

For those supporting the appellate court’s initial ruling, the excitement of the Sept. 4 decision was short-lived — the court approved a stay on same-sex marriages nine days later, at the request of Indiana’s attorney general. The stay will remain in effect until the Supreme Court either hears the case and issues a new ruling or refuses to hear the case, leaving the appellate court’s ruling in place. Indiana has asked the Supreme Court to take on the issue and decide whether same-sex marriage should be allowed in all 50 states, according to Associated Press reports.

Emily Kirkegaard is a coordinator for GlassND, the subcommittee of the Graduate Student Union (GSU) concerned with LGBTQ issues. She said graduate students met the appellate court’s initial ruling with deflated enthusiasm, and many had been “tensely waiting” the Supreme Court’s final decision.

“There was not much of a celebration for the recent ruling. There was initially some buzz about it on social media and everyone was very excited and happy but the stay in Indiana came so quickly that there wasn’t nearly the same excited celebration,” Kirkegaard said.

Maginn, who favors legalization of same-sex marriage, said he was pleased to read the opinion penned by the appellate court’s Judge Richard Posner, a well-known conservative appointed by President Ronald Reagan. Mangin said Posner found holes in the state’s argument and used sarcasm to expose these flaws.

“[Posner] talked about how in Indiana, first cousins over the age of 65 are legally allowed to marry because the idea is that they can’t have biological children,” Maginn said. “The fact that the argument seems to put forth that homosexual couples aren’t as capable of raising children as first cousins to me is absurd.”

“Not only that, in Indiana gay couples are allowed to adopt, so if the institution of marriage is to create an environment where children can effectively and fruitfully grow, then I don’t think it makes any sense to let a homosexual couple adopt children but not be married,” Maginn said.

Graduate student Tiernan Kane said it was “incumbent” on the Supreme Court to hear Indiana’s case. He disagreed with Posner’s opinion, saying it misused precedent and demonstrated both “flippancy” and a lack of understanding of the state’s case.

“On reading it, my first impression is I was sorry to see that [Posner] seemed to have approached this in a similar way to the way he approached the Notre Dame … case [against the Department of Health and Human Services] earlier this year,” Kane said. “It doesn’t appear from the decision that he’s taken the time to understand the opposing point of view.”

Kane founded and serves as a leader of Students for Child-Oriented Policy (SCOP), a group that last week gained approval from the Club Coordination Council (CCC). He said extreme points of view on both sides often stifle the discussion of marriage on campus, something SCOP experienced when it first applied for club status in the spring.

“Particularly regarding Posner, but also I think marriage [debates in general], you don’t hear a lot about it, and I think that’s in part because of the fear of the reaction that greeted SCOP when it tried to raise this point of view,” Kane said. “There was an immediate accusation made by several hundred students, not the majority of students, but several hundred to say this is a position that would be wrongly discriminatory.”

Junior SCOP member Alexandra DeSanctis said the court cases and general dialogue about marriage reflect “a fundamental misunderstanding of what the debate is.” She said she believes marriage as an institution must be “permanent,” “exclusive” and “life-giving.”

“I think if you understand marriage as having these three characteristics, you see that it naturally points to being between a man and a woman, and I think you can see that regardless of your religion, just through common sense and through reason,” DeSanctis said. “… The state cares about its future citizens and I think defining marriage as between a man and a woman is best for children and therefore best for the state.”

Graduate student Greg Cousins, a member of GlassND,  said the Notre Dame community should encourage discussion over different ideologies of marriage in spite of potential clashes between traditional and non-traditional views.

“People should talk about it even if people disagree with the ruling,” he said. “There should be some open discussion, especially in a very well-renowned University. This should be a place of friendly discourse even if there are differing opinions, and I don’t think there has been enough of that.”

Tim Bradley, a junior member of SCOP, said students supporting the traditional idea of marriage often face criticism for refusing to change their views despite pressure from opposing perspectives.

“For some people who think that marriage is a union of one man and one woman, it’s easy for them to be afraid to speak their mind because there’s a risk of being labeled a bigot or a homophobe or being told you’re on the wrong side of history, and those are hard things for someone to hear,” Bradley said.

Students’ hesitancy to speak out in fear of criticism can make the discussion of marriage appear lopsided, Bradley said.

“On the surface one would think that most students are in favor of redefining marriage because that’s the impression given in the media but I don’t think that that’s true,” he said. “I think a lot of people are silent on the issue.”

Senior Chris Weber, a PrismND member, said he hopes many who argue for traditional marriage on religious grounds will start to reconsider their beliefs, as the Church has done in the past.

“I think there are some in the church community who believe with time this will probably evolve, our idea of marriage will evolve,” Weber said. “I’m not saying it’s going to be within the next decade or my lifetime, but I wouldn’t even be surprised if the Catholic Church evolved their thoughts on this issue just as they evolved their thoughts on evolution or on heliocentrism.”

Cousins said Notre Dame has a unique opportunity as a Catholic institution to foster greater dialogue and encourage open discussion.

“The University and the University administration shouldn’t be afraid of encouraging conversation about it because silence is not a very good defense of their position,” he said. “It shouldn’t be something that’s kept hush-hush.

“I think it would be very progressive of them to encourage this sort of discussion officially and hopefully we will see some of that.”

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About Lesley Stevenson

Lesley Stevenson is a senior news writer for The Observer after previously serving as News Editor and an Assistant Managing Editor. She is a senior from Memphis, Tennessee, studying Film, Television and Theatre (FTT) and American Studies and living in Breen-Phillips Hall. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram at @lcstevenson, and visit her website at lcstevenson.wordpress.com

Contact Lesley
  • just.one:truth,justice,love

    SCOP – what’s best for a child is a loving home, to say otherwise would completely deny the thousands of adoptions by gay loving parents. Also, “life-giving” is not a requirement unless straight childless couples (sterile or by choice) be publicly shamed.

    • Luis

      I guess they must be in favor of fertility tests as a requirement to obtaining a marriage license. I recall reading that infertility affects 8% of the population. That’s a lot of heterosexual couples they wish to band from marriage. I just don’t understand why these people are so hateful to want to exclude so many people from the institution of marriage.

      • just.one:truth,justice,love

        I honestly believe they already have the belief that “homosexuality is an abomination”, BUT they know better to use their specific religion in a secular all-encompassing landscape…therefore, they rationalize whatever else they can to bring some desperate resemblance to rational logic.

        • Luis

          I agree 100%. This has never been about marriage equality. Case in point, virtually every single marriage ban also banned civil unions, domestic partnerships or ‘any union that resembled a marriage’. Their objective from day 1 has been to not grant any societal approval of LGBT people or relationships. No matter how they sugar coated it, it is nothing but bigotry justified by misguided religious beliefs.

    • ND

      If SCOP wants to criticize gay marriage for not being “exclusive, life-giving, and permanent”, they also need to criticize divorced couples, sterile couples, married couples who choose not to have children, abusive/negligent parents, etc. They are just an anti-gay marriage group hiding under the guise of “children’s best interests”. And they’re wrong anyway because studies have shown that children raised by gay parents do not end up any different than children raised by straight parents (i.e. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1467-9450.00302/abstract).

      • ND
      • just.one:truth,justice,love

        Definitely! A broken marriage with no love and commitment is internally shamed and publicly pitied/shamed, along with abusive negligent/abusive parents. Wedding vows emphasize committed love and most typical marriages are based on that. It comes back to love and the characters of the two people involved. No one, to my knowledge, has been internally or externally shamed for not having kids as these morons suggest. Also, it’s interesting to note that while they scream about the sanctity of marriage, the divorce rate is HIGHEST in the Bible Belt with Evangelical Christians. Instead of worrying so much about what loving gay couples want to do with their relationship, they should invest that much time, energy, and fervor into an anti-divorce campaign.

        • ND

          Definitely. It’s also frustrating to see SCOP accuse their critics of being intolerant and obtuse. Granted, you that type of criticism on both sides of any debate, but I’ve definitely seen it more often from conservative groups on campus. “Look at how hypocritical these liberals are, boasting about being tolerant while being intolerant towards us!” Criticizing someone’s opinion is not the same as discriminating against them! You can respect someone even if you disagree with a sociopolitical movement they support.

      • BCSWowbagger

        Um… I’m pretty sure they do make those criticisms?

        I assume you are just treating Loren Marks and Mark Regnerus as excommunicated for (respectively) demonstrating the deep, systematic flaws in the existing “science” on gay parenting and presenting data that suggests the position you hold might possibly be wrong?

        • ND

          Yes, I’m familiar with their research. Marks admitted in court that he only read parts of other studies before drawing his conclusions and that his research was incomplete. Investigations have also shown that he and Regnerus were both receiving payments from several anti-gay marriage groups.

          The position I hold might possibly be wrong; however, the research that shows equal outcomes for children of gay and straight parents is much more robust and unbiased, so it’s more convincing and more likely to be right.

  • BCSWowbagger

    The Church never evolved its position on evolution, and its changes on heliocentrism were never doctrinal (and are wildly overstated by popular myth even there).

    The Catholic Church simply does not, has not, and likely never will alter a promulgated doctrine, all optimism or pessimism aside. Gotta know your Church history before you can make predictions about its future.

  • David Kashangaki

    I agree- the University should foster discussion about this. People are unclear about what defines a Catholic Marriage and this is a great opportunity to get this distinction clearly out in the open!